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canopy open

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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: canopy open

Chuck

glad you had enough wits to FLY THE PLANE.  

We can all learn from other peoples mishaps, thanks for telling us.

When my engine boiled on take off, then a hose burst, then the engine 

swallowed glycol but unfortunately didn't stop, then? I've no idea but 

the trim was badly nose high,  (I checked the wreck a few weeks later, 

we had a stick top trim button and I guess I nudged it accidentally) so 

I must have been pushing hard, glycol on windscreen, not enough power 

with trees and barn to avoid, I can only assume My gyro toppled.

Then the power came back suddenly and I guess the extra torque tripped 

the left wing, (inside of turn) and in we went from 100 feet or so. At 

least it didn't hurt, till later.

I have no memory of the accident but it tool me 6 weeks to get out of 

hospital, fortunately most of what they screwed back on works. They were 

good those guys but I was lucky. They were doing a trial at the hospital 

that day, put as many surgeons as necessary on the case at once, I think 

they said 7 guys worked on me at once. IT WORKED but I don't think it 

worked for the bean counters.

I really should go back to the hospital and chase them up on their 

conclusions to that successful experiment.

One very successful British NHS story. I do find it difficult to respect 

beancounters. Our western education system still hasn't learnt what the 

real values are. Maybe we should blame the bean counters for global 

warming 

Graham

pholosoffing again, sorry

jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:45 am Post subject: canopy open

We had an unlatched canopy incident here at Punta Gorda last weekend.  I Long Eze went in about a half mile from the departure end of the runway.  The pilot is 72 and has been flying the airplane for 25 years.  He tried to hold the canopy down and fly the airplane at the same time and it did not work very well.  The airplane was pretty much destroyed but he got out with some bruises and a few broken bones.  I think he is out of the hospital by now.  The point for all of us is:

  

 CHECKLIST -- CHECKLIST -- CHECKLIST

  

 Jim Puglise A-283, Punta Gorda, FL  

  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com> 



[quote] --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton 

 

 

 Chuck 

 glad you had enough wits to FLY THE PLANE.  

 We can all learn from other peoples mishaps, thanks for telling us. 

 When my engine boiled on take off, then a hose burst, then the engine 

 swallowed glycol but unfortunately didn't stop, then? I've no idea but 

 the trim was badly nose high, (I checked the wreck a few weeks later, 

 we had a stick top trim button and I guess I nudged it accidentally) so 

 I must have been pushing hard, glycol on windscreen, not enough power 

 with trees and barn to avoid, I can only assume My gyro toppled. 

 Then the power came back suddenly and I gu  ess th e extra torque tripped 

 the left wing, (inside of turn) and in we went from 100 feet or so. At 

 least it didn't hurt, till later. 

 I have no memory of the accident but it tool me 6 weeks to get out of 

 hospital, fortunately most of what they screwed back on works. They were 

 good those guys but I was lucky. They were doing a trial at the hospital 

 that day, put as many surgeons as necessary on the case at once, I think 

 they said 7 guys worked on me at once. IT WORKED but I don't think it 

 worked for the bean counters. 

 I really should go back to the hospital and chase them up on their 

 conclusions to that successful experiment. 

 One very successful British NHS story. I do find it difficult to respect 

 beancounters. Our western education system still hasn't learnt what the 

 real values are. Maybe we should blame the bean counters for global 

 warming  

 Gra  ham [b][b]

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:08 am Post subject: canopy open

Jim

it wasn't a Long EZ it was a Vari Eze, trickier airplane and higher 

landing speed.

Graham



jimpuglise(at)comcast.net wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   We had an unlatched canopy incident here at Punta Gorda last weekend.  

 I Long Eze went in about a half mile from the departure end of the 

 runway.  The pilot is 72 and has been flying the airplane for 25 

 years.  He tried to hold the canopy down and fly the airplane at the 

 same time and it did not work very well.  The airplane was pretty much 

 destroyed but he got out with some bruises and a few broken bones.  I 

 think he is out of the hospital by now.  The point for all of us is:

  

 CHECKLIST -- CHECKLIST -- CHECKLIST

  

 Jim Puglise A-283, Punta Gorda, FL  

  



**

**

jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:30 am Post subject: canopy open

Jim,

Here's an Idea. I had the local trophy shop make a small 2'' X 6 '' 

plaque with the take off, landing, and cruise check list engraved in 3 

columns. I placed it right at the top of the radio stack. It's black 

with gold letters and it looks great! Cost was about $8.00. You cannot 

punch the radio frequencies without looking at it. As you age you get 

to know your misgivings and one of mine is if it's not written down... 

I'll forget it!

Jeff

N128LJ Gold Rush



On Nov 29, 2006, at 11:44 AM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   We had an unlatched canopy incident here at Punta Gorda last weekend.  

 I Long Eze went in about a half mile from the departure end of the 

 runway.  The pilot is 72 and has been flying the airplane for 25 

 years.  He tried to hold the canopy down and fly the airplane at the 

 same time and it did not work very well.  The airplane was pretty much 

 destroyed but he got out with some bruises and a few broken bones.  I 

 think he is out of the hospital by now.  The point for all of us is:

  

 CHECKLIST -- CHECKLIST -- CHECKLIST

  

>

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:11 am Post subject: canopy open

We had here in Finland about one year

 ago a similar accident and it was fatal.

 After that and many other similar stories I

 decided to do something and added four

 Honeywell micro switches - one for each 

 shooting bolt. All of them must be  engaged 

 to get green lights, they are  serial connected. 

  

 Also I decided to use pip-pins to secure  doors

 against unintentionally opening during  flight.

 There is also a label "remove pip pin before 

 landing" - that is for possible emergency  exit.

  

 Check an attachment.

  

 Raimo

 =====

 Raimo M W Toivio

  

 OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417 

OH-CVK C172  Skyhawk

OH-BLL Beechcraft C45 w radial engines (grounded)

  

 37500  Lempaala

Finland

tel + 358 3 3753  777

fax + 358 3 3753 100

gsm + 358 40 590 1450

  

 raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi (raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi)

www.rwm.fi



  

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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:12 am Post subject: canopy open

We had here in Finland about one year

 ago a similar accident and it was fatal.

 After that and many other similar stories I

 decided to do something and added four

 Honeywell micro switches - one for each 

 shooting bolt. All of them must be  engaged 

 to get green lights, they are  serial connected. 

  

 Also I decided to use pip-pins to secure  doors

 against unintentionally opening during  flight.

 There is also a label "remove pip pin before 

 landing" - that is for possible emergency  exit.

  

 Check an attachment.

  

 Raimo

 =====

 Raimo M W Toivio

  

 OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417 

OH-CVK C172  Skyhawk

OH-BLL Beechcraft C45 w radial engines (grounded)

  

 37500  Lempaala

Finland

tel + 358 3 3753  777

fax + 358 3 3753 100

gsm + 358 40 590 1450

  

 raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi (raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi)

www.rwm.fi



  

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m.j.gregory(at)talk21.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject: canopy open

I quite agree that prevention is better than cure, and anything that people do to pay attention to checklists/warning lights/checking security to ensure that the canopy doors are properly locked before takeoff is to be welcomed.  

   

I am not convinced of the desirability of having any additional one locking mechanism to prevent opening in flight that might either prevent the pilot/passenger or outside rescuers from opening the canopy in the event of a crash landing.  If, for example your engine failed on takeoff and you had to make an immediate forced landing without being able to choose where and without time to unlock the doors, you would not wish to jeopardise your chances of survival further by being locked in.  

   

Graham is right: you must FLY THE AEROPLANE.  If, for whatever reason, prevention has failed and a canopy door does unlatch in flight, then the handling pilot should think very carefully before deciding to risk holding onto the door if he is flying solo.  Chuck Rhoads was fortunate to get away with it ("the landing became interesting because I had never used my right hand on the controls and thus there was no easy to control throttle, trim, etc.  The landing actually turned out to be pretty good...").  The Europa will fly perfectly well after losing a door, and it may be far better to have this happen and accept that there will be a relatively minor repair than to risk the far more serious consequences of losing proper control, of which we have been given vivid examples in previous messages.  

   

Mike Gregory  

Europa Club Safety Officer  

         

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio

 Sent: 29 November 2006 19:15

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Fw: canopy open  

  

     

We had here in Finland about one year ago a similar accident and it was fatal. After that and many other similar stories I decided to do something and added four Honeywell micro switches - one for each shooting bolt. All of them must be engaged to get green lights, they are serial connected.   

    

   

    

Also I decided to use pip-pins to secure doors against unintentionally opening during flight. There is also a label "remove pip pin before landing" - that is for possible emergency exit.  

    

   

    

Check an attachment.  

    

   

    

Raimo  

  [quote]    

---

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:34 am Post subject: canopy open

----- I am not convinced of the desirability of having any  additional one locking mechanism to prevent opening in flight that might either  prevent the pilot/passenger or outside rescuers from opening the canopy in the  event of a crash landing.  If, for example your engine failed on takeoff  and you had to make an immediate forced landing without being able to choose  where and without time to unlock the doors, you would not wish to jeopardise  your chances of survival further by being locked in.

   Mike  Gregory

 Europa Club Safety  Officer 



  

 Yes - that is  the other side of the story. Same problem is

 in cars when  driving in  "bad" cities: doors should be 

 locked to prevent possible  robberies in  traffic lights 

 but they should be open for  possible  accidents.

 Best locks open  automatically when crashed.

  

 I tell more about my  personal safety plan: passenger side

 door is always locked by  pip-pin. That is because no-pilot-

 passenger (child for  example) is irresponsible. It takes only

 one second to open the door  by lifting the lever ("hey what

 the hell is this?"). When  locked w pip-pin  there is more time 

 and pilot can prevent stupid  or accidentally opening.

  

 Notice: when parked pip-pin  is a passenger side door lock!

  

 Pilot side: pilot decides if  he/she uses pilot side pip-pin or not.

 I think it is safe to use  well after take-off when levelled and unlock

 again well before  landing.

  

 Of course after emergency  landing you can find yourself

 on it´s side locked side  upp...

  

 By the way - I am not sure -  but I think most Cessna pilots do

 lock both of the doors  before take-off. I checked also my Cessna

 flying manual and there was  a clear order: before take take-off

 do close and lock the doors  (this is also for comfort: if not locked

 you cannot use your armrests  - locking lever is on its way when

 unlocked  position).

  

 Life and flying is full of  choices, happily.

  

 I want to point: this all is  IMHO. Copy or not!

  

 Raimo

 =====

 Raimo M W  Toivio

  

 OH-XRT Europa XS Mono  #417 

OH-CVK C172 Skyhawk

OH-BLL Beechcraft C45 w radial engines  (grounded)

  

 37500   Lempaala

Finland

tel + 358 3 3753 777

fax + 358 3 3753 100

gsm + 358  40 590 1450

  

 raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi (raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi)

www.rwm.fi



  

  

 [quote]      

       

Also I decided to use pip-pins to    secure doors against unintentionally opening during flight. There is also a    label "remove pip pin before landing" - that is for possible emergency    exit.

      

 

      

Check an    attachment.

      

 

      

Raimo

   [quote]          

---

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:13 am Post subject: canopy open

I tend to agree, Mike. Mal MaClure in Australia developed a very cheap, 

very simple way of making the doors safe and stopping the slight bowing 

that occurs when the fresh air vents are open. Ever had your shirt 

sleeve gently tugged by the slight draft going under the bottom edge of 

the door? I've an idea Bob Berube did something similar?

He fitted a small nylon wedge to the door and the door frame mid way 

along the bottom of the door, the two wedges just latch and hold when 

the door is closed. The door flexes slightly as it latches and 

unlatches, (don't worry about this) If the door isn't fully closed it 

won't be latched but you may still get the front shoot bolt in. Then 

after take off there will be an unusual draft through the gear lever 

slot, it's caused byt the air being sucked out of the cockpit through 

the back edge of the door.

Mal's mod means you just latch the door and if it's latched, close the 

shoot bolts. If it isn't latched don't lock it.

Graham



Mike Gregory wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I am not convinced of the desirability of having any additional one 

 locking mechanism to prevent opening in flight that might either 

 prevent the pilot/passenger or outside rescuers from opening the 

 canopy in the event of a crash landing.  If, for example your engine 

 failed on takeoff and you had to make an immediate forced landing 

 without being able to choose where and without time to unlock the 

 doors, you would not wish to jeopardise your chances of survival 

 further by being locked in.



  



*

*

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:43 am Post subject: canopy open

Is there any danger of the door flying off and damaging the tail – or is the tail robust enough?   

         

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Gregory

 Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 15:39

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: canopy open  

  

   

I quite agree that prevention is better than cure, and anything that people do to pay attention to checklists/warning lights/checking security to ensure that the canopy doors are properly locked before takeoff is to be welcomed.  

   

I am not convinced of the desirability of having any additional one locking mechanism to prevent opening in flight that might either prevent the pilot/passenger or outside rescuers from opening the canopy in the event of a crash landing.  If, for example your engine failed on takeoff and you had to make an immediate forced landing without being able to choose where and without time to unlock the doors, you would not wish to jeopardise your chances of survival further by being locked in.  

   

Graham is right: you must FLY THE AEROPLANE.  If, for whatever reason, prevention has failed and a canopy door does unlatch in flight, then the handling pilot should think very carefully before deciding to risk holding onto the door if he is flying solo.  Chuck Rhoads was fortunate to get away with it ("the landing became interesting because I had never used my right hand on the controls and thus there was no easy to control throttle, trim, etc.  The landing actually turned out to be pretty good...").  The Europa will fly perfectly well after losing a door, and it may be far better to have this happen and accept that there will be a relatively minor repair than to risk the far more serious consequences of losing proper control, of which we have been given vivid examples in previous messages.  

   

Mike Gregory  

Europa Club Safety Officer  

         

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio

 Sent: 29 November 2006 19:15

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Fw: canopy open  

  

     

We had here in Finland about one year ago a similar accident and it was fatal. After that and many other similar stories I decided to do something and added four Honeywell micro switches - one for each shooting bolt. All of them must be engaged to get green lights, they are serial connected.   

    

   

    

Also I decided to use pip-pins to secure doors against unintentionally opening during flight. There is also a label "remove pip pin before landing" - that is for possible emergency exit.  

    

   

    

Check an attachment.  

    

   

    

Raimo  

  [quote]    

---

sqwk7000(at)cotswoldwirel
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:26 am Post subject: canopy open

I remember in the hot weather last year, on one  occasion I taxied/held with the canopy slightly open for fresh air (a common  enough event, I suppose).  Once cleared for take off, I closed the door  quickly and took off.  On the climb out I realised that the rear shoot bolt  hadn't engaged.

  

 I completed one circuit, keeping speed low, landed,  stopped, engaged bolt then took off on the remaining (ample) runway.   Naturally I was concerned that I might lose the door, but it was a  non-event.

  

 Moral of story?

 1. ALWAYS check ALL four bolts.

 2. During build, ensure that the bolts throw  adequate distance into their holes.  I recall that there was a mod that  came round during my build to thicken the door frames where the bolts  go.

  

 David

 G-SHSH (builder but no longer owner)

 [quote] [b]

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: canopy open

David

better still is to put bushes into the door frames, Europa will sell you 

a second set

Graham

sqwk7000 wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   2. During build, ensure that the bolts throw adequate distance into 

 their holes.  I recall that there was a mod that came round during my 

 build to thicken the door frames where the bolts go.

  

 David

 G-SHSH (builder but no longer owner)

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: canopy open

Or use brass tube; better than alloy on alloy.

Duncan McF.

---

daseitz(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: canopy open

<<<<Is there any danger of the door flying off and damaging the tail - or is

the tail robust enough? >>>>>



I can tell you from experience that the door will rip the hinges in half if

it opens at cruise speed!!!!  Yes I made the mistake of not checking the

rear bolt in about the sixth hour on the plane. Was at 1600ft feeling the

air coming through the throttle slot trying to figure why.  Door flew open

straight up. Before I could even think about grabbing it, it was gone. No

damage to airframe at all, just no door and mouth open. Aircraft flies fine

just don't try to use charts, a little windy. Built new door and always

check doors twice before takeoff.



Dean Seitz

N284A

terrys(at)cisco.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject: canopy open

Yes! If you feel air coming from the throttle slot, keep it slow and

return for an immediate landing.

A few months ago we went to Pine Mtn Lake for lunch and before the

return flight spent nearly a half hour with the door open on a hot day,

chatting with someone on the field.  The door began warping in the heat,

so that when I closed the pilot's door, the rear bolt did not engage.

Immediately after take-off, we both noticed a breeze coming from the

gear retraction slot (it usually sucks air out at this location).  All

was well at normal climb speed of about 80 kts, but when I leveled off

for a cruise climb of 100 kts the door popped open, BIG SURPRISE.  The

door did not immediately depart the plane, and I quickly noticed that

left rudder would bring it back into arms reach.  I reduced throttle and

yelled for my build partner in the right seat to take the plane, and

wrestled the door back and latched it.  Although we did not lose the

door, we did lose the air strut.  In retrospect, I think I did spend too

many brain cells on the door and way too few on flying the plane.  It's

a good thing I had a pilot/passenger in the right seat.



I believe the event that finally caused the door to open was not the

increased airspeed, but the change in yaw that happened when I

transitioned from climb to cruise(climb).



Regards,

Terry Seaver

N135TD

--

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