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CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru

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arno7452(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru

Hi List,

 I am making final decision for engine to install on 701.   My local DAR recommends the Jab 3300 over the 912S.  His position is that  the Jab is easier to maintain, is less complex and has fewer change  orders.  Until today, I have assumed the engine would be a 912S as it seems  to be the engine of choice for many of the LSA manufacturers.

  

 My mission will be slow cruising around the local area with an  occasional x-country to the Midwest.  Eventually, I would like to install  floats for some added thrills.  Floats, of course, will benefit from the  100hp.

  

 I would appreciate any thoughts on the subject.

 Regards,

 Ken Arnold

 Pikeville, NC

   [quote][b]

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:16 pm Post subject: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru

Hi Ken,



 I agree with your DAR on the desirable features of the Jabiru over the Rotax.  The Rotax needs a PSRU to make it compatible with aircraft use, and it works very hard compared to the 6 cylinder Jabiru.  The water cooling system also makes it more complex and prone to failure.  It is still a good and popular engine, but I feel the Jabiru offers a lot more.



 The 3300 may be overkill for your airplane when matched with your desires.  Have you considered a Jabiru 2200?  I don't have any experience with any of these engines, but at 120 or 130 HP the 3300 may be a bit much for the occasional circuit around the patch.



 Paul

 XL fuselage (planning on using 3300)

 do not archive



 

 At 02:52 PM 10/6/2006, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hi List,

 I am making final decision for engine to install on 701.  My local DAR recommends the Jab 3300 over the 912S.  His position is that the Jab is easier to maintain, is less complex and has fewer change orders.  Until today, I have assumed the engine would be a 912S as it seems to be the engine of choice for many of the LSA manufacturers.

  

 My mission will be slow cruising around the local area with an occasional x-country to the Midwest.  Eventually, I would like to install floats for some added thrills.  Floats, of course, will benefit from the 100hp.

  

 I would appreciate any thoughts on the subject.

 Regards,

 Ken Arnold

 Pikeville, NC

 	
 

 ---------------------------------------------

 Paul Mulwitz

 32013 NE Dial Road

 Camas, WA 98607

 ---------------------------------------------

     [quote][b]

challgren(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:49 pm Post subject: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru

Ken:

I am facing the same dilemma and until a week ago I was going with the 3300 because of the support we received from Pete on our last 3300.  I concur with your DAR's comments on the 3300.



Now I am reconsidering the 912S again because Cessna and Van's are planning on using the 912S so more support should be available almost anywhere.



Stan

Building 701

On Oct 6, 2006, at 3:52 PM, Ken Arnold wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi List,

I am making final decision for engine to install on 701.  My local DAR recommends the Jab 3300 over the 912S.  His position is that the Jab is easier to maintain, is less complex and has fewer change orders.  Until today, I have assumed the engine would be a 912S as it seems to be the engine of choice for many of the LSA manufacturers.

 

My mission will be slow cruising around the local area with an occasional x-country to the Midwest.  Eventually, I would like to install floats for some added thrills.  Floats, of course, will benefit from the 100hp.

 

I would appreciate any thoughts on the subject.

Regards,

Ken Arnold

Pikeville, NC

 	  Quote: 	
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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:15 pm Post subject: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru

Cessna is *thinking* about building an  LSA:

  

 "Cessna Aircraft Company, a unit of Textron Inc. (NYSE:  TXT), today revealed a proof of concept aircraft that it will use to help  determine whether the company will enter into the popular Light Sport Aircraft  sector."

http://cessna.com/news/article.chtml?ID=Q5ii8RnoMh5hFe2Tfxwc5yjv7DwjtYM2IWSAU5B2nrE3mcXfBF&year=2006

  

 On its own I don't think Van's adoption of the Rotax will  do much to increase support.

  

 Manufactures use the 912S because a version is available  which is certified in the US. But Jabirus are certified in other countries so  this doesn't say much about relative quality.

  

 Me, I'd rather have an engine which is less likely to break  rather than one with more places to fix it if does break.

  

 -- Craig

 	  Quote: 	
		   	
   [quote][b]

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:54 pm Post subject: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru

Actually, I am not sure Van is adopting the Rotax for the RV-12.  I spoke with him earlier this year, and he seemed very interested in asking me what engine I would use for my XL.  He didn't say much about the RV-12 that day, but he clearly indicated the current prototype they have is just a concept model and not a final production design.  I suggested two changes for him to consider - changing the engine to the Jabiru, and getting rid of the folding wings.  Again, he did more listening than talking.



 My own guess is they need to make some improvements in the RV-12 before putting the kits in production.  It is too heavy and the engine and folding wing issues need to be reexamined.  I know there will be some RV-12 sales out of loyalty to Van's, but it will do a lot better if it competes well against the other LSA designs.



 Paul

 XL fuselage

 do not archive



 

  	  Quote: 	
		  On its own I don't think Van's adoption of the Rotax will do much to increase support. 	




 

 

  ---------------------------------------------

 Paul Mulwitz

 32013 NE Dial Road

 Camas, WA 98607

 ---------------------------------------------

     [quote][b]

Dabusmith(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:20 pm Post subject: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru

>I am making final decision for engine to install on 701

  

 The 912S has tons of power, is very light, turns a larger prop and has  water cooled heads. That makes a pretty good 701 engine. Very handy if your  climbing out of canyons in the summer. I would suspect the Jabaru would be the  better choice for the 601. I just don't understand why so many aircraft  manufacturers choose the Rotax for their LSA demonstrators. I would love to  go back country flying with a Jabaru equipped 701. That would be the true  test.

 Dave Smith

 701 912ULS 592hrs

  

  [quote][b]

n701rr(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:27 am Post subject: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru

Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> wrote:   	  Quote: 	
		    Ken,

   

  Let me plug Jon's latest video at:

   

  http://www.homebuilthelp.com/The912Competition.htm

   

  It may help your decision making......

  Low & Slow

  

At 02:52 PM 10/6/2006, you wrote:



   	  Quote: 	
		  Hi List,

I am making final decision for engine to install on 701.  My local DAR recommends the Jab 3300 over the 912S.  His position is that the Jab is easier to maintain, is less complex and has fewer change orders.  Until today, I have assumed the engine would be a 912S as it seems to be the engine of choice for many of the LSA  manufacturers.

 

My mission will be slow cruising around the local area with an occasional x-country to the Midwest.  Eventually, I would like to install floats for some added thrills.  Floats, of course, will benefit from the 100hp.

 

I would appreciate any thoughts on the subject.

Regards,

Ken Arnold

Pikeville, NC

	
  

	




Rick 

Sharpsburg, GA. USA 

http://www.n701rr.com [quote][b]

dougsnash(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru

Quote



 	  Quote: 	
		  My mission will be slow cruising around the local

area with an occasional x-country to the Midwest. 

Eventually, I would like to install floats for some

added thrills.  Floats, of course, will benefit from

the 100hp.


	


End Quote



I am about a month or so away from having to make the

same power decision.  I like the looks of the Jabiru

engine and the fact that it is simpler with the the

direct drive.



The problem with the Jabiru is that it was designed

with a faster airframe in mind.  All of Jabiru's

airframes are faster and cleaner than the 701.  The

CH-701 was designed around a larger diameter prop the

Rotax can deliver due it's redrive.  I really don't

want to reward Rotax for what I feel is price gouging

but they do have a niche in the market.  You will also

want the longer prop if you are thinking floats. 

Longer props are more efficient (I understand) at

lower speeds.  When trying to get up on step, you need

all of the low end grunt you can get.



For these reasons I am leaning towards the Rotax

912ULS.  Now I just need to figure out how to come up

with $20,000 for the engine and all of the

"accessories".  Ouch!



Doug MacDonald

NW Ontario, Canada

CH-701 Scratch builder

Starting the cabin area today.

Do not archive



__________________________________________________

arno7452(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru

Good Morning Listers,

 Many thanks for the good responses.  The Ch701 STOL  capabilities depend upon swinging a large prop at about 2800rpm.  This  enhances takeoffs with floats from a tight lake setting.   So...............

 1.  The Jab 3300 needs to turn at about 3800rpm.   This speed requires a short prop.  One point for Rotax.

 2.  Most agree the Jab is a great engine for the 601 and  its mission.  They also agree maintenance should be easier and  cheaper.  One point for Jabiru.

 3.  Manufacturers such as Cessna appear to be leaning  towards the 912 series.  None of the responders indicated they were flying  a 701 behind a Jab.

  

 Conclusion:  I have decided to install the 912S.   Zenith has all the parts identified and it is a proven configuration.  The  ultimate point is getting STOL performance with floats.  The final decision  on panel contents awaits further analysis.  At the moment, the Grand Rapids  engine monitoring system.

  

 Many thanks for your inputs.  I feel much better about  the game plan.

 Ken Arnold

 Pikeville, NC 

  

  

 [quote]   ---

cffd(at)pgrb.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:11 pm Post subject: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru

I fly my 701 behind a Jabiru 2200, as do several  others, and like it just fine.

 Chuck D.

 N701TX

 [quote]   ---

secatur

Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 50
Location: New Zealand

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: CH701 Power: Rotax or Jabiru

Again the perennial question..redrive vs direct drive.. Is it really a requirement to swing a large prop for 701 (non floats) at low speeds?

If so , why do some people comment that they fly behind direct drives no problem?

What is the ACTUAL difference in performance?



I'd like to use a Jabiru 2200 because I like the engine, and I think Rotax is really taking advantage of their niche market price wise ! (It costs more for the engine than the rest of the aircraft put together here in Aus !!)



Factual  Information GREATLY appreciated !



Steve

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