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Jon(at)joncroke.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

If you are not a 701  builder then send this to the trash can...

  

 For those of you that are now just entering the  wonderful world of 701 construction, HomebuiltHELP has a video for  you!   This will be the first in a series of volumes dedicated to  assisting in constructing this plane, slats and all!

  

 http://homebuilthelp.com/Rear_Fuselage.htm

  

 Released this morning, just in time for holiday  shopping!

smallRearFuse%20-%20Front.jpg

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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

Does this mean your own 701 is coming  along?

  

 -- Craig

  

   [quote][b]

zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

Now we have an official way of tracking Jon’s progress!  There are few of us that have as much construction experience on one type of aircraft. You know this guy loves a 701 when he is willing to build a 3rd one.   

     

Mark Townsend  Alma, Ontario  

Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started  

www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com  

  

--

dougsnash(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

Hey Jon, a little late for me, I'm almost ready to

join the front and rear halves on mine.  Didn't stop

me from sending in an order for another DVD for my

Homebuilthelp collection though.



Looks like a good subject for a video to me.



Do not archive



Doug MacDonald

CH-701 Scratch Builder

NW Ontario, Canada

n701rr(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

COUNT ME IN ! ! !

   

  do not archive



Jon Croke <Jon(at)joncroke.com> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		           

  If you are not a 701 builder then send this to the trash can...

   

  For those of you that are now just entering the wonderful world of 701 construction, HomebuiltHELP has a video for you!   This will be the first in a series of volumes dedicated to assisting in constructing this plane, slats and all!

   

  http://homebuilthelp.com/Rear_Fuselage.htm

   

  Released this morning, just in time for holiday shopping!

  

	


Rick 

Sharpsburg, GA. USA 

http://www.n701rr.com

   [quote][b]

robert.eli(at)adelphia.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:32 pm Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

Hey Jon Croke,



I've been reading about all of this flight experience with the slats removed and vortex generators in their place.  I'm finally finishing up the tail and thinking about the wings (yes, I know I'm as slow as you know what).  But, I am actually thinking about building my wings minus the slats.  Since you are on your third CH701, and obviously know the thing inside out, what is your take on this no-slats approach?



Bob Eli



---- Rick R <n701rr(at)yahoo.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   COUNT ME IN ! ! !

    

   do not archive

 

 Jon Croke <Jon(at)joncroke.com> wrote:

            

   If you are not a 701 builder then send this to the trash can...

    

   For those of you that are now just entering the wonderful world of 701 construction, HomebuiltHELP has a video for you!   This will be the first in a series of volumes dedicated to assisting in constructing this plane, slats and all!

    

   http://homebuilthelp.com/Rear_Fuselage.htm

    

   Released this morning, just in time for holiday shopping!

   

 

 

 

 Rick 

 Sharpsburg, GA. USA 

 http://www.n701rr.com

  

 ---------------------------------

Jon(at)joncroke.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:26 pm Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

Hi Bob,



I am honored that you would ask my opinion about this, however I am the 

LEAST qualified to express an opinion about this topic.  I have no formal 

aerodynamics education... and you may recall I am sometimes challenged at 

keeping the plane in the air for more than a few hours!



If you have not built the fuselage yet, consider building that before 

building the wings. Obviously they both (wings and fuse) have to be 

completed before flying, but I have found it makes a lot more emotional 

sense to have the body of the plane done and sitting there whilst you embark 

on the wings.   (Something to sit in, and hangar fly in around the yard, 

maybe even start the engine) I have done it both ways... building the fuse 

first is much more rewarding, in my opinion!



Jon



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hey Jon Croke,



 I've been reading about all of this flight experience with the slats 

 removed and vortex generators in their place.  I'm finally finishing up 

 the tail and thinking about the wings (yes, I know I'm as slow as you know 

 what).  But, I am actually thinking about building my wings minus the 

 slats.  Since you are on your third CH701, and obviously know the thing 

 inside out, what is your take on this no-slats approach?



 Bob Eli

zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 am Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

I agree that the fuselage is nice to have built first, but remember that

this is not Jon's first plane. Unless you buy Jon's DVD ( which I always

recommend as a guide to help) then you will not learn things that

building the wings will teach you to apply to the fuselage's

construction. Also Wings can hang from the ceiling or in a wing cradle

and be pushed to the side of the shop. Jon has an incredible amount of

room in his shop and fit 4 fuselages and still have room for making his

wings. Most of us don't have that room and the fuselage will just get

damaged from hanger rash trying to build around it. IF you want to build

your fuselage first, please do no one will stop you. But be aware first

timers that there may be added difficulties in doing so.



Mark Townsend

Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.

president(at)can-zacaviation.com

www.can-zacaviation.com 

--

robert.eli(at)adelphia.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:59 am Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

Jon,

Thanks for the advice.  I had not thought about doing the fuselage next, just because I thought that the wings were the usual next step.  I will strongly consider doing the fuselage next since I need all of the motivational help I can get.  On the "remove the slats and VG issue", Mark Townsend has convinced me to build my CH701 Kit "per plans", with the slats.  The only reason the "slat removal and VG approach" seemed attractive was that I don't plan to push the envelop and "hang the plane on the prop" at high angles of attack at low altitude because it is obviously the most risky position to be in if you have a engine-out.  Thanks for the input and best wishes for the Holidays.

Bob Eli

---- Jon Croke <Jon(at)joncroke.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	

 Hi Bob,

 I am honored that you would ask my opinion about this, however I am the 

 LEAST qualified to express an opinion about this topic.  I have no formal 

 aerodynamics education... and you may recall I am sometimes challenged at 

 keeping the plane in the air for more than a few hours!

 If you have not built the fuselage yet, consider building that before 

 building the wings. Obviously they both (wings and fuse) have to be 

 completed before flying, but I have found it makes a lot more emotional 

 sense to have the body of the plane done and sitting there whilst you embark 

 on the wings.   (Something to sit in, and hangar fly in around the yard, 

 maybe even start the engine) I have done it both ways... building the fuse 

 first is much more rewarding, in my opinion!

 Jon

 > 

 >

 > Hey Jon Croke,

 >

 > I've been reading about all of this flight experience with the slats 

 > removed and vortex generators in their place.  I'm finally finishing up 

 > the tail and thinking about the wings (yes, I know I'm as slow as you know 

 > what).  But, I am actually thinking about building my wings minus the 

 > slats.  Since you are on your third CH701, and obviously know the thing 

 > inside out, what is your take on this no-slats approach?

 >

 > Bob Eli

 >

 >

robert.eli(at)adelphia.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:06 am Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

Mark,



Thanks for the advice.  I also appreciate your thoughts regarding the "slat removal - VG" issues, and it has convinced me to build my 701 without modifications.  I do need to order a copy of Jon's DVD.  I will do that as soon as I get back home from my trip here in San Francisco.



Bob Eli



---- ZodieRocket <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> wrote: 

[quote] 

 

 

 I agree that the fuselage is nice to have built first, but remember that

 this is not Jon's first plane. Unless you buy Jon's DVD ( which I always

 recommend as a guide to help) then you will not learn things that

 building the wings will teach you to apply to the fuselage's

 construction. Also Wings can hang from the ceiling or in a wing cradle

 and be pushed to the side of the shop. Jon has an incredible amount of

 room in his shop and fit 4 fuselages and still have room for making his

 wings. Most of us don't have that room and the fuselage will just get

 damaged from hanger rash trying to build around it. IF you want to build

 your fuselage first, please do no one will stop you. But be aware first

 timers that there may be added difficulties in doing so.

 

 Mark Townsend

 Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.

 president(at)can-zacaviation.com

 www.can-zacaviation.com 

 

 

 --

Jon(at)joncroke.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:05 am Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

This is good advice!



do not archive



---

taffy0687(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:15 am Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

Bob, my vote is with Mark T.  Do the wings first, hang them up out of the way, than do the fuselage. I don't know about Jon's video, I have never seen it.  I am sure he has some good points in it.  I do know in the "old days" Chris said do the wings first as it was easier to build the fuselage to fit the wings, than to try and build the wings to fit the fuselage.   Good luck in what ever you decide.

 Fritz

 ---

robert.eli(at)adelphia.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:44 am Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

Fritz and crew...



I'm working in my basement, so space is hard to find.  I greatly appreciate the discussion of the issues that need to be considered.  I'm just happy to put the issue of slats versus no slats to bed in my own mind.  I will do the wings first as is recommended.  I am all "jacked-up" and ready to make a lot of progress over these winter months.  Hopefully I will have at least one wing finished by the time we all meet at the Zenith dinner at Oshkosh next summer.  I'm shooting for having both done.



Bob Eli



---- Big Gee <taffy0687(at)yahoo.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Bob, my vote is with Mark T.  Do the wings first, hang them up out of the way, than do the fuselage. I don't know about Jon's video, I have never seen it.  I am sure he has some good points in it.  I do know in the "old days" Chris said do the wings first as it was easier to build the fuselage to fit the wings, than to try and build the wings to fit the fuselage.   Good luck in what ever you decide.

Fritz
	


---

ch701builder

Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 119
Location: N38.9947,W105.1305,ALT. 9,100'

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:19 am Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

Hello all,

 I have read in my "Assembly manual" that even they show having the wings done before the fuselage, but I was wanting to do the fuselage first myself. It shows that the mating of the front to the rear fuselage, you set everything in accordance to your front and rear spar spacing from your existing wings. I suppose that you can set your spar spacing from your existing fuselage. I just never have been this far in the construction, little lone, here John is farther on his third plane than I have ever been on my first, but I like the idea of having something substantial to show for your efforts, that friends and family can see, and actually "sit in" while I make the engine noises. They can't make noises, because I don't have a "Multi-engine rating" yet.

 

 I will just keep making parts and see where it takes me.

 

 (p.s. I wish I would have known about the DVD a little bit earlier, that way it would have been included in my "Wish List" to my better half, and she might have gotten it for Christmas.)

 

 

 Keith

 N 38.9947

 W 105.1305

 Alt. 9,100'

 CH701 -- 8% scratch

 Sidewinder -- 8% scratch

 Teenie Two -- wooden forms

 Do Not Archive

 **************************************************************************************************************

 

 

 ZodieRocket wrote:

 [quote]   [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> (zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca)   I agree that the fuselage is nice to have built first, but remember that this is not Jon's first plane. Unless you buy Jon's DVD ( which I always recommend as a guide to help) then you will not learn things that building the wings will teach you to apply to the fuselage's construction. Also Wings can hang from the ceiling or in a wing cradle and be pushed to the side of the shop. Jon has an incredible amount of room in his shop and fit 4 fuselages and still have room for making his wings. Most of us don't have that room and the fuselage will just get damaged from hanger rash trying to build around it. IF you want to build your fuselage first, please do no one will stop you. But be aware first timers that there may be added difficulties in doing so.  Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president(at)can-zacaviation.com (president(at)can-zacaviation.com) www.can-zacaviation.com    --

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

I don't know about the 701 but as far as the 601 is concerned the manual makes some assumptions that you have learned a particular task that was shown in the wings section of the manual when you get to the fuselage.



In my case I had learned some of those tasks and then had a real hard time transferring that knowledge to the fuselage.

 	  ch701builder wrote: 	
		  Hello all,

 I have read in my "Assembly manual" that even they show having the wings done before the fuselage, but I was wanting to do the fuselage first myself. It shows that the mating of the front to the rear fuselage, you set everything in accordance to your front and rear spar spacing from your existing wings. I suppose that you can set your spar spacing from your existing fuselage. I just never have been this far in the construction, little lone, here John is farther on his third plane than I have ever been on my first, but I like the idea of having something substantial to show for your efforts, that friends and family can see, and actually "sit in" while I make the engine noises. They can't make noises, because I don't have a "Multi-engine rating" yet.

 

  --

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

Keith, send me your wife’s E-Mail address and I will quietly let her know, it’s not to late for her to order!  

     

Mark Townsend  

Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.  

president(at)can-zacaviation.com (president(at)can-zacaviation.com)  

www.can-zacaviation.com   

  

   

do not archive  

     

  

--

 12/11/2006

  

  

--

 12/11/2006

     [quote][b]

lrm(at)skyhawg.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

It makes absolutely no logical sense to build the  wings first.  However, it really doesn't matter which one you build first,  if you follow the plans all parts will fit together.  If Chris really said  "do the wings first as it was easier  to build the fuselage to fit the wings, than to try and build the  wings to fit the fuselage.", then there is a problem with his plans.   Jon's rationale for building the fuselage first is simply a matter of self  encouragement.  If you have a fuselage sitting there on landing gear  so you can sit in it, roll it around, it gives you more incentive to keep  building.  The hard part is done.   I built my fuselage first and  my wings (PegaStol) bolted right up, zero problem.  No matter what you  build, you normally build the core first.  Seems to me that one would want  to build parts to fit the frame not the frame to fit the parts.   

  

 Just me 2 cents worth for what it's worth,  Larry N1345L www.skyhawg.com

  

  

  

 --

taffy0687(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

YOU GUYS DRIVE ME UP THE WALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



 ---

george(at)customcals.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

lrm(at)skyhawg.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: For 701 builders ONLY - everyone else - look away!

Well sir, with all due respect, if you are being  driven up a wall, do yourself an favor and get off the list.  Then your  problem is solved.  Personally I find all this chatter to be entertaining  and sometimes educational.  If someone says something that bothers me, I  just move on to the next one unless I feel as if I have something to contribute,  no big deal.  Then, I try to chose my words carefully, because I realize  how easy it is to offend some people.  You might want to consider  using a program I use called mailwasher, it lets you preview your e-mail at the  server level.  If I see a subject matter I'm not interested in, I just  click delete and it never gets to my computer.  It might keep you off the  wall.

  

 I have been following this VG thing with  interest.  However, I am on the fence because I don't have Zenith  wings.  Someday I may build another 701 and may not be able to get PegaStol  wings so I will do a modification of some sort to the wings.  I  have never been a fan of the Zenith wings.  I really think that if one goes  with vgs then they need to do something different with the leading edges other  than just removing the slats.  Seems to me, especially for some of you  scratch builders, that a cap to form a aerodynamic leading edge would not be  difficult to construct.  It could even be made into a gas tank or  storage.  Just food for thought. 

  

 Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com  

  

    

  

 [quote]   ---

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