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Quest for the One-Word Answers

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject: Quest for the One-Word Answers

Yeah, this group really sucks sometimes! There are folks who hang

around here just to use it as a personal Q&A Butler . . . the

answer is probably in the archives, in the book or even in dozens

of places out on the 'net. But to take the (gasp) $time$ to dig

it out and understand it . . . .  It's obviously easier to ask

a question and then presume that what comes back is an acceptable

alternative to personal investigation and resolution. The degree

of acceptability is often assigned by perceptions "greatness"

ascribed to individuals who choose to answer.



The questions about the remote battery raised additional questions

that an astute designer would add to the mix of issues to be

resolved. My duty as teacher dictates that we explore and address

as many of those issues as we're capable of . . . do the best we

know how to do. It's too bad if this little quirk of mine (and

others here on the List) gets in the way of anyone's sensibilities

and/or quest for the one-word answer.



A simple-idea that has been around for millennia: "You

get what you pay for". One may interpret this to mean that

since nobody pays much in the way of cash for their participation,

disappointments for unrealized expectations should be taken in stride.

However, may I suggest that the rudimentary medium of exchange is

not dollars but minutes. A minute spent here on the List for any

purpose is lost forever and cannot be recovered or re-invested

anywhere else.



Minutes expended to pose questions for which one desires

one-word answers are high risk investments. For example, "will

grounding my battery in the tail cause a ground loop?"  There is

no quick and short answer to that without further exploration . . .



Several times a year, somebody will send me a note extolling the

virtues of my book. They'll cite great understanding acquired

by their participation on the List. Then they toss in some

drawings that they claim are "slight adaptations" of figure

Z-whatever and they wish to have me look it over. Most even

offer to pay my exorbitant consulting fees for the service.



What I receive is often difficult to decipher. It seems to be

some new architecture with mystery features that are un-explained.

The language (schematic symbology) and organization

are poor it would take a lot of $time$ just to deduce the ideas

much less evaluate them for usefulness.



I get a sinking feeling when opening these packages. Somebody

has expended a lot of $time$ on the effort with an exceedingly

poor prospect for return on investment for either understanding

or improved system functionality. Adding to that expense is not

productive for me or the customer. I generally toss those packages

in the round file and try to forget them.



So, Carlos . . . how would you have me (or anyone else here on

the List) respond? Your questions for which you desired one-word

answers painted a rather startling image in the gray matter

of this ol' wire stringer.



I can do one of two things: (1) toss your ideas out to the List

for consideration not only for the technical but practical

merits or (2) toss them in the round file as "un-answerable

in the present form - please re-phrase and resubmit."



If I offered the one-word answers you sought and the system had

problems later, then you might be inclined to whack on that

gray-haired ol' f(at)#t in Wichita who told you it would be

okay. So if you're interested in deducing whether or not

your proposed architecture is consistent with the best we know

how to do, then more details are needed.



Carlos and Stan, I'm not trying to sell you a bill of goods.

If you find the $time$ spent here on the List to be

of poor investment, may I suggest you spend it elsewhere? The

same $time$ used to install some rivets or bend some metal might

be a much better deal in your situation. But know too that

$time$ spent in Mutual Gunching Society meetings does not

speak well of anyone's skill in allocation of resources.



I hope neither of you believes that your p(at)#$'n-and-m(at)#$#ing

about the "poor service" here on the List is going to effect

any changes. As I write these words, my two-year old

niece is throwing a rather noisy fit upstairs for some odd

reason or another. It matters not. Her $time$ and effort in

this endeavor will have an exceedingly poor return on investment.



The choice is yours gentlemen. How may we serve you?



Bob . . .

[quote]--

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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:11 am Post subject: Quest for the One-Word Answers

Bob

  

 Due to your unfriendly post, and not wanting to  feed an useless discussion, perhaps I should not answer, but since I  believe, on one side, that you didn't noticed my first post, and on the  other side, that you must cope with criticism, recognize your  errors and correct your action accordingly, here it  goes.

  

 First of all, I shall say that I recognize your  huge knowledge in aeroelectric matters, so I'm not like your "friends"  George and Paul, who called you ignorant and even insulted you further (although  sometimes you seem to prefer loosing time to write endless posts responding to  those kind of guys). 

 Maybe you can remember a tall, "heavy", moustache  guy from Portugal who attended a seminar you held in Highland, IL at  the WICKS Aircraft store, in March 2005. No doubt I must be  at your seminars' Book of Records as being the guy who traveled from the  farthest place (more than 5.000 miles) just to attend your seminar, and  most probably the only one who came from another continent of this Planet!!  

  

 Second, perhaps you should reread my last post,  where I wrote "...most of the times, this forum is useful..." and the only thing  I hate is when "..Some times on this list, you ask apples and you get an  answer in oranges.."

 I surely don't deserve your comments and you  own me an apologize.

  

 Further comments embedded below

  

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Yeah, this group really  sucks sometimes! 

 >
	


  

 I agree. 

 I began my initial post saying that I was  planning to put an avionics back-up battery in my aircraft's tail because  of W&B issues, and asked if it was electrically correct to connect the  battery's ground locally, and the first 2 or 3 guys who answered, including  yourself, only criticized the idea of puting the battery in the  tail (critique which I obviously accept), instead of helping me with the  grounding question!! This really sucks! Isn't this "apples and oranges"??! Of  course it is!

  

 > There are folks who hang

 	  Quote: 	
		   around here  just to use it as a personal Q&A Butler . . . the

 answer is probably  in the archives, in the book or even in dozens

 of places out on the  'net. 

  
	


 I didn't find it, and I believe you cannot either.  

  

 > But to take the (gasp) $time$ to dig

 	  Quote: 	
		    it out and understand it . . . .  It's obviously easier to ask

 a  question 

  
	


 Of course it is! You must understand (I know you  do) that people use internet groups to get quick and direct answers to  their questions, exactly to avoid loosing time digging in archives and in books.  It's the progress! However I still do it sometimes the old fashion way  ( Even yesterday I consulted the book about an audio multiple input  issue).

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 The questions about the remote battery raised additional  questions

 that an astute designer would add to the mix of issues to  be

 resolved. 

  
	


 I aggree. But the problem was that you only addressed the W&B issue,  leaving my question unanswered. Thus it was not a mix response, it was an answer  to something I didn't ask. If the group had answered my question, and  also addressed the W&B issue, I would never  have complained!

  

 > My duty as teacher dictates that we explore and address

 	  Quote: 	
		   as  many of those issues as we're capable of . . . do the best we

 know how  to do. It's too bad if this little quirk of mine (and

 others here on the  List) gets in the way of anyone's sensibilities

 and/or quest for the  one-word answer.

  
	


 For me, no problem. My sensibility doesn't go that way. I always learn when  several issues are explored, even with criticism to some of my own options or  decisions. But I surely like to get answers to my questions.

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   A  simple-idea that has been around for millennia: "You

 get what you pay  for". 

  
	


 OK, that is a low and cheap comment. If you use this argument, you'd better  close the list. Internet discussion groups are free by definition, therefore if  you're in this "market", you must abide by its rules. If you don't  want to answer, it's your previlege, but you should refrain from attacking those  who are asking.

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   However, may I suggest that the rudimentary medium of exchange  is

 not dollars but minutes. A minute spent here on the List for  any

 purpose is lost forever and cannot be recovered or  re-invested

 anywhere else.

  
	


 I aggree again, but what you are saying now contradicts what you were  saying at the top of your post, and in the title. "One-word answers" are  quicker than long diatribes, thus if you give one-word answers, you are saving  more minutes to re-invest in other subjects, or giving direct answers to other  askers, or even being a "personal Q&A Buttler" to those "folks who hang  around here just" for that  (sorry, I couldn't resist)

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   For example, "will grounding my battery in the tail cause a ground  loop?"  > There is no quick and short answer to that without further  exploration . . .

 > 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   So, Carlos . . . how would you have me (or anyone else here  on

 the List) respond? Your questions for which you desired  one-word

 answers painted a rather startling image in the gray  matter

 of this ol' wire stringer.

 

 I can do one of two  things: (1) toss your ideas out to the List

 for consideration not only  for the technical but practical

 merits or (2) toss them in the round  file as "un-answerable

 in the present form - please re-phrase and  resubmit."


	


 Now is the time to repeat my first post (Dec, 24), which probably you  didn't noticed:

  

 Since I will have to put some wheight in the tail of my RV-9A because  of W&B issues, I am planning to install a small battery (probably around  4.5Ah, depending on its own wheight) to act as a back-up battery for some  avionics (EFIS and Auto-pilot).

For the (+) terminal of that future battery,  I already passed a AWG#14 

tefzel wire all the way from the tail to the back  of instrument pannel, but 

for the (-) wire, I am thinking that I could  attach it to a ground lug that 

I already have in the tail, which is directly  connected to the "Main" 

battery (-) terminal, and where are also connected  the ground wires from the tail light, the tail strobe beacon and the elevator  trim motor.



Can I connect that battery's (-) terminal to the tail ground  lug ?

Is there a possibility for ground loop ?



 What did you need more to give me electrical one-word answers, instead  (or along with) the W&B comments?

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Carlos and Stan, I'm not trying to sell you a bill of  goods.

 If you find the $time$ spent here on the List to be

 of  poor investment, may I suggest you spend it elsewhere? 

  
	


 I didn't say that, and I don't think that. But you have to react different  when someone criticize you (or the group), mainly when the critique is fair,  like mine is (was).

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   I hope neither of you believes that your p(at)#$'n-and-m(at)#$#ing ([email]p(at)#$\'n-and-m(at)#$#ing[/email])

 about the  "poor service" here on the List is going to effect

 any changes.  

  
	


 I never referred to "poor service". What I said,  and maintain, is that I hate when someone asks "apples" and the group answers in  "oranges", but you already got my point...

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 The choice is yours gentlemen. How may we serve  you?

 

 Bob . . .

 


	


 My choice is reading all the posts (except of course the grasping  one's, including this one), to try to learn something, and sometimes ask  the questions I need an answer to, to receive "one-word answers" or more  elaborated ones, whichever applys the best.

 You may serve us keeping up the good work, sharing your knowledge and  having the patience to do it

  

 Cheers and Happy New year

 Carlos

 (Sorry for the LONG post)

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

    [quote][b]

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cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:30 am Post subject: Quest for the One-Word Answers

Carlos,

  

 In addition to the  old saying that "you get what you pay for", there is another appropo to this  problem you seem to be experiencing, that being, "don't look a gifted horse in  the mouth".  Perhaps your are examining the horse's teeth a bit more  closely than justified....and if the teeth are a bit worn for your tastes, just  give the horse back and don't bother with it.  

 

Chuck Jensen 

Do Not Archive.   

 --

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pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: Quest for the One-Word Answers

Carlos, for a man from another country and having English as a second language, I must compliment you on both your content and intent. You have a fine way with words, and demonstrate an even better grasp of humanity.  

Craig Smith  

         

  

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo

 Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 2:07 PM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Quest for the One-Word Answers  

  

     

Bob  

    

   

    

Due to your unfriendly post, and not wanting to feed an useless discussion, perhaps I should not answer, but since I believe, on one side, that you didn't noticed my first post, and on the other side, that you must cope with criticism, recognize your errors and correct your action accordingly, here it goes.  

    

   

    

First of all, I shall say that I recognize your huge knowledge in aeroelectric matters, so I'm not like your "friends" George and Paul, who called you ignorant and even insulted you further (although sometimes you seem to prefer loosing time to write endless posts responding to those kind of guys).   

    

Maybe you can remember a tall, "heavy", moustache guy from Portugal who attended a seminar you held in Highland, IL at the WICKS Aircraft store, in March 2005. No doubt I must be at your seminars' Book of Records as being the guy who traveled from the farthest place (more than 5.000 miles) just to attend your seminar, and most probably the only one who came from another continent of this Planet!!   

    

 ………  

  

       [quote][b]

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:16 pm Post subject: Quest for the One-Word Answers

Oh, just forgot to mention that a very famous certified aircraft manufacturer places their avionics back-up battery, along with roughly half of the avionics equipment in the tail for weight and balance reasons. That aircraft is the Cessna 182 with the G-1000.  

Craig Smith  

       [quote][b]

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject: Quest for the One-Word Answers

Craig

  

 Thanks very much for your compliment, and for  the information about the C182. I knew I had not reinvented the  wheel.

  

 Carlos

  

 [quote]   ---

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