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robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:30 am    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

Folks,
We're meeting with the builder next week to get started on our house.
I don't know why I didn't think to ask this before... I'm "behind"
this project before I even start!... but,

do any of you have any suggestions, hints, gotchas, "if I had it to
do over"'s or words of wisdom that you'd be willing to share
particularly about using a garage as a shop?
I'm hoping to not repeat other's mistakes and maybe make life a
little easier on me down the road building my RV. Things like, "I
wish I had run airlines through the walls ahead of time!", etc.

It'd probably be good for "those that come after" too.

don't hesitate to send me photos directly if you're not comfortable
sending them on the list...

Very excited!

Robbie Walker
RV Wannabe
Wilmington, NC


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sportav8r(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:20 am    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

Robbie: I wish I had told Miriam ahead of time that our cars would
spend alot of time outdoors while the RV was being built Smile

-Stormy

On 1/4/07, Robbie Walker <robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com> wrote:
Quote:


Folks,
We're meeting with the builder next week to get started on our house.
I don't know why I didn't think to ask this before... I'm "behind"
this project before I even start!... but,

do any of you have any suggestions, hints, gotchas, "if I had it to
do over"'s or words of wisdom that you'd be willing to share
particularly about using a garage as a shop?
I'm hoping to not repeat other's mistakes and maybe make life a
little easier on me down the road building my RV. Things like, "I
wish I had run airlines through the walls ahead of time!", etc.

It'd probably be good for "those that come after" too.

don't hesitate to send me photos directly if you're not comfortable
sending them on the list...

Very excited!

Robbie Walker
RV Wannabe
Wilmington, NC



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Dale Ensing



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 571
Location: Aero Plantation Weddington NC

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:04 am    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

Stormy,
You must have ultimate power at your house! My wife told me I could do what
ever I wanted to with my side of the garage but her convertible was going on
her side...No question! Gave me an excuse to buy a hangar.
Dale
do not archive

Quote:
Robbie: I wish I had told Miriam ahead of time that our cars would
spend alot of time outdoors while the RV was being built Smile

-Stormy

On 1/4/07, Robbie Walker <robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com> wrote:
>
> <robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com>
>
> Folks,
> We're meeting with the builder next week to get started on our house.
> I don't know why I didn't think to ask this before... I'm "behind"
> this project before I even start!... but,
>
> do any of you have any suggestions, hints, gotchas, "if I had it to
> do over"'s or words of wisdom that you'd be willing to share
> particularly about using a garage as a shop?
> I'm hoping to not repeat other's mistakes and maybe make life a
> little easier on me down the road building my RV. Things like, "I
> wish I had run airlines through the walls ahead of time!", etc.
>
> It'd probably be good for "those that come after" too.
>
> don't hesitate to send me photos directly if you're not comfortable
> sending them on the list...
>
> Very excited!
>
> Robbie Walker
> RV Wannabe
> Wilmington, NC
>



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RV-6A
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC
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robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:22 am    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

good one! thanks... that will require some careful thinking about...

On Jan 4, 2007, at 9:20 AM, Bill Boyd wrote:

Quote:

<sportav8r(at)gmail.com>

Robbie: I wish I had told Miriam ahead of time that our cars would
spend alot of time outdoors while the RV was being built Smile

-Stormy

On 1/4/07, Robbie Walker <robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com> wrote:
>
> <robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com>
>
> Folks,
> We're meeting with the builder next week to get started on our house.
> I don't know why I didn't think to ask this before... I'm "behind"
> this project before I even start!... but,
>
> do any of you have any suggestions, hints, gotchas, "if I had it to
> do over"'s or words of wisdom that you'd be willing to share
> particularly about using a garage as a shop?
> I'm hoping to not repeat other's mistakes and maybe make life a
> little easier on me down the road building my RV. Things like, "I
> wish I had run airlines through the walls ahead of time!", etc.
>
> It'd probably be good for "those that come after" too.
>
> don't hesitate to send me photos directly if you're not comfortable
> sending them on the list...
>
> Very excited!
>
> Robbie Walker
> RV Wannabe
> Wilmington, NC
>




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dbreda(at)earthlink.net
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:39 am    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

Lots of electrical and air outlets and lights. The biggest issue I had
was soundproofing. You'll be working late at night and the air
compressor is LOUD (she says). Forget riveting after she goes to bed... Smile
Dana

Robbie Walker wrote:

Quote:

<robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com>

Folks,
We're meeting with the builder next week to get started on our house.
I don't know why I didn't think to ask this before... I'm "behind"
this project before I even start!... but,

do any of you have any suggestions, hints, gotchas, "if I had it to
do over"'s or words of wisdom that you'd be willing to share
particularly about using a garage as a shop?
I'm hoping to not repeat other's mistakes and maybe make life a
little easier on me down the road building my RV. Things like, "I
wish I had run airlines through the walls ahead of time!", etc.

It'd probably be good for "those that come after" too.

don't hesitate to send me photos directly if you're not comfortable
sending them on the list...

Very excited!

Robbie Walker
RV Wannabe
Wilmington, NC



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Larry Bowen



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 802
Location: NC, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:43 am    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

Floor in the rafters, creating a loft for storage.

--
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com

Robbie Walker wrote:
Quote:

<robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com>

good one! thanks... that will require some careful thinking about...

On Jan 4, 2007, at 9:20 AM, Bill Boyd wrote:

>
> <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
>
> Robbie: I wish I had told Miriam ahead of time that our cars would
> spend alot of time outdoors while the RV was being built Smile
>
> -Stormy
>
> On 1/4/07, Robbie Walker <robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com> wrote:
>>
>> <robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com>
>>
>> Folks,
>> We're meeting with the builder next week to get started on our house.
>> I don't know why I didn't think to ask this before... I'm "behind"
>> this project before I even start!... but,
>>
>> do any of you have any suggestions, hints, gotchas, "if I had it to
>> do over"'s or words of wisdom that you'd be willing to share
>> particularly about using a garage as a shop?
>> I'm hoping to not repeat other's mistakes and maybe make life a
>> little easier on me down the road building my RV. Things like, "I
>> wish I had run airlines through the walls ahead of time!", etc.
>>
>> It'd probably be good for "those that come after" too.
>>
>> don't hesitate to send me photos directly if you're not comfortable
>> sending them on the list...
>>
>> Very excited!
>>
>> Robbie Walker
>> RV Wannabe
>> Wilmington, NC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


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RV-8 SOLD,
RV-7QB in progress...
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dwight(at)openweave.org
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:11 am    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

Lights! Lots of lighting for finding that screw you dropped. Painting the
walls a very light color can help increase the brightness in the space too.
If you can spare the cash to put one of the nice concrete floor finishes
(light colored) that can help as well.

-- Dwight (still could use more light in some areas)

On Thu Jan 4 10:36:38 2007, Larry Bowen wrote :
Quote:



Floor in the rafters, creating a loft for storage.

--
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com

Robbie Walker wrote:
>
> <robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com>
>
> good one! thanks... that will require some careful thinking about...
>
> On Jan 4, 2007, at 9:20 AM, Bill Boyd wrote:
>
>>
>> <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
>>
>> Robbie: I wish I had told Miriam ahead of time that our cars would
>> spend alot of time outdoors while the RV was being built Smile
>>
>> -Stormy
>>
>> On 1/4/07, Robbie Walker <robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> <robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com>
>>>
>>> Folks,
>>> We're meeting with the builder next week to get started on our house.
>>> I don't know why I didn't think to ask this before... I'm "behind"
>>> this project before I even start!... but,
>>>
>>> do any of you have any suggestions, hints, gotchas, "if I had it to
>>> do over"'s or words of wisdom that you'd be willing to share
>>> particularly about using a garage as a shop?
>>> I'm hoping to not repeat other's mistakes and maybe make life a
>>> little easier on me down the road building my RV. Things like, "I
>>> wish I had run airlines through the walls ahead of time!", etc.
>>>
>>> It'd probably be good for "those that come after" too.
>>>
>>> don't hesitate to send me photos directly if you're not comfortable
>>> sending them on the list...
>>>
>>> Very excited!
>>>
>>> Robbie Walker
>>> RV Wannabe
>>> Wilmington, NC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>



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robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

All great ideas, thanks!

Quote:
Robbie,

Build the house on a basement and build the plane down there. It
has worked out great for me! There was enough room to put the
wings and tail on in the basement. The only change I had to make
was to enlarge the single 32" door to a double 64" door. Pictures
are on my web site: www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html

Bill, that's a great idea. Unfortunately that's out of my control in
this development... as far as I know even the so-called "custom"
homes don't have basements in this subdivision.

Quote:

Also don't forget about your electrical and lighting needs. Lots
of lights and 20 amp circuits . I have plugs every 10 feet or so
and they alternate on different circuits. Thus I can plug things
into two adjoining plugs and won't blow the breaker. Also, install
a dedicated circuit for your compressor. You might even start
looking into them now so you will know if you need 220 double phase
or just a single phase 20 amp. I have a single phase 20 amp
circuit for my 5 hp 35 gallon compressor. That has worked good but
the compressor is a bit small for painting.

Good luck,
Bill Repucci

I'm thinking of putting the compressor in a dedicated closet with
extra soundproofing and an exhaust. Gonna wire the closet with a
couple of dedicated circuits 110 and 220 just in case. Checkoway did
something similar and I liked the concept. I can put air along the
walls and add a few overheads... I love the idea of those cool
springy looking yellow coil airhoses hanging down... what's that
honey? oh well... it was a thought! <grin>
Quote:
Lots of electrical and air outlets and lights. The biggest issue I
had was soundproofing. You'll be working late at night and the air
compressor is LOUD (she says). Forget riveting after she goes to
bed... Smile
Dana

gonna soundproof as much as possible... luckily for me the bedroom is
on the opposite corner of the house... my biggest concern is pissing
off my neighbor who happens to be my pharmacist... that could be...
"unwise" <grin>

brick exterior should help and I'm gonna look into a more insulated
garage door too.
Quote:

Floor in the rafters, creating a loft for storage.

--
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com

What would you say is the minimum vertical clearance needed? For
instance, if I build a storage rack the same height as the garage
door further inside, will I have enough room to work under it? Will
it help with building any jigs? We have a finished room over our
garage (that would be Greta's domain... I had to choose "men's room"
or RV... took about 2 seconds) so I won't have access to the rafters.
What about wall racks? Would that be an acceptable compromise?

I REALLY value your input guys!!!!

Robbie


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dbreda(at)earthlink.net
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:42 am    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

I built my -6 in my basement with 7'2" ceiling height - what was plenty
of room.
Dana

Quote:

What would you say is the minimum vertical clearance needed? For
instance, if I build a storage rack the same height as the garage
door further inside, will I have enough room to work under it? Will
it help with building any jigs? We have a finished room over our
garage (that would be Greta's domain... I had to choose "men's room"
or RV... took about 2 seconds) so I won't have access to the rafters.
What about wall racks? Would that be an acceptable compromise?

I REALLY value your input guys!!!!

Robbie


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:42 am    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

Since everything is a trade-off (otherwise you'd build a separate
building...), a few thoughts about trade-offs
- A big tank air compressor, perhaps in it's own sound proofed space
may be a good way to reduce noise. My compressor typically comes on <1
times a building session. I can turn it off and work for hours. Only
riveting seems noise prohibitive.
- Putting an in-wall, overhead, air hose system is neat but I decided to
keep it simple and cheap with hoses on the floor. Not bad. I bought a
"light weight hose kit with manifold" from Cleaveland and mounted the
manifold on a small board that I kick around. Spent money and time
elsewhere.
- An internet connection is priceless. Wireless should work without a
problem in a garage. I have a far away out building and spent
time/effort to extend wireless range - very worth the effort. Don't
need cable, FM Attennas, telephone lines or anything as a result. Cell
phone and wireless eliminates all the wiring
- This being my third aviation related shop, I put fewer electrical
outlets in this time with the realization that high quality extensions
were more flexible. I just made sure I had the amps and capacity in the
fixed outlets.
- White wall and ceiling surfaces sure amplify the lighting nicely
- I'm finding rolling tool chests are better than fixed storage. All of
my aviation tools are in one chest. A second holds almost everything
else except for power tools

I'm not in a garage so YMMV. Just some thoughts.

Dana Breda wrote:
Quote:


Lots of electrical and air outlets and lights. The biggest issue I
had was soundproofing. You'll be working late at night and the air
compressor is LOUD (she says). Forget riveting after she goes to
bed... Smile
Dana

Robbie Walker wrote:

>
> <robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com>
>
> Folks,
> We're meeting with the builder next week to get started on our
> house. I don't know why I didn't think to ask this before... I'm
> "behind" this project before I even start!... but,
>
> do any of you have any suggestions, hints, gotchas, "if I had it to
> do over"'s or words of wisdom that you'd be willing to share
> particularly about using a garage as a shop?
> I'm hoping to not repeat other's mistakes and maybe make life a
> little easier on me down the road building my RV. Things like, "I
> wish I had run airlines through the walls ahead of time!", etc.
>
> It'd probably be good for "those that come after" too.
>
> don't hesitate to send me photos directly if you're not comfortable
> sending them on the list...
>
> Very excited!
>
> Robbie Walker
> RV Wannabe
> Wilmington, NC
>



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Mike Munn



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:08 am    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

Go for a belt drive air compressor. They are much quieter than a direct
drive compressor. The belt drive does require oil for lubrication while
the direct drive compressors are oilless. Plenty of light. Heat
(especially) and cooling would help on those cold winter nights and hot
summer days. If the garage (aircraft fabrication facility) is large, then
running copper air piping in the walls with several quick connects is
helpful. And plenty of power outlets.

Mike Munn
RV8
N315MP

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:21 am    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

Locate your compressor outside of your work area and pipe the air in. The compressor is LOUD.

Robbie Walker <robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com> wrote: [quote]--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Robbie Walker

Folks,
We're meeting with the builder next week to get started on our house.
I don't know why I didn't think to ask this before... I'm "behind"
this project before I even start!... but,

do any of you have any suggestions, hints, gotchas, "if I had it to
do over"'s or words of wisdom that you'd be willing to share
particularly about using a garage as a shop?
I'm hoping to not repeat other's mistakes and maybe make life a
little easier on me down the road building my RV. Things like, "I
wish I had run airlines through the walls ahead of time!", etc.

It'd probably be [quote][b]


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:56 am    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

Guys (no ladies chimed in yet, that I'm aware of),I REALLY appreciate all the excellent suggestions. Thanks again.

On Jan 4, 2007, at 1:20 PM, Craig Gallenbach wrote:
Quote:
Locate your compressor outside of your work area and pipe the air in.  The compressor is LOUD. 

Robbie Walker <robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com (robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RVSouthEast-List message posted by: Robbie Walker

Folks,
We're meeting with the builder next week to get started on our house.
I don't know why I didn't think to ask this before... I'm "behind"
this project before I even start!... but,

do any of you have any suggestions, hints, gotchas, "if I had it to
do over"'s or words of wisdom that you'd be willing to share
particularly about using a garage as a shop?
I'm hoping to not repeat other's mistakes and maybe make life a
little easier on me down the road building my RV. Things like, "I
wish I had run airlines through the walls ahead of time!", etc.

It'd probably be
Quote:

href="http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?arxEVvus7fCQT1MVZBUQsCM0iKPzm4HkVv0pFCh7pRyi1op6aJP9zmQCn2IGjdTWWbwUQsKe8IECXCWC8v4L4PiHsOvXips-l9BWv4PYgkHIURxaRendIczHCQkn1NEVpod78VASOCr1vF6y05xAoGTcCdripsaOFd8Qg31eGNEw3kfSxKvxYYmfSk3q9JcSCUe7fIIe6YWpt9V5qE7xt">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?5dMQsLLe3DPqrwUs-OYqejo0dSImRqsHIURxaRendTWWbwUQsKe8IECXCWC8v4L4PiHsOvXips-l9BWv4PYgkHIURxaRendIczHCQkn1NEVpod78VASOCr1vF6y05xAoGTcCdripsaOFd8Qg31eGNEw3kfSxKvxYYmfSk3qpJcSCUe7fIIe6YWpt9V5qE7xt">http://forums.matronics.com



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Bret Smith



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 178
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:18 am    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

An additional thought, especially if you ever do woodworking in your garage (shop), is to run 4" vacuum ducts through the rafters for a remote vacuum system. Install blast valves near your drill press and any saw or bench sander.

I have one in my shop (along with PVC runs for compressed air) to help in vacuuming all the tiny specks of aluminum dust. I located my vacuum system next to my compressor in another room (mechanical room) with a remote switch in the shop.

Bret
[quote] ---


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:07 pm    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

great idea! thanks!
On Jan 4, 2007, at 2:05 PM, Bret Smith wrote:
[quote]An additional thought, especially if you ever do woodworking in your garage (shop), is to run 4" vacuum ducts through the rafters for a remote vacuum system.  Install blast valves near your drill press and any saw or bench sander.
 
I have one in my shop (along with PVC runs for compressed air) to help in vacuuming all the tiny specks of aluminum dust.  I located my vacuum system next to my compressor in another room (mechanical room) with a remote switch in the shop.
 
Bret
[quote]---


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:14 pm    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

Yeah, right. Me - power?! At my house? Think again, amigo.

On 1/4/07, Dale Ensing <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Quote:


Stormy,
You must have ultimate power at your house! My wife told me I could do what
ever I wanted to with my side of the garage but her convertible was going on
her side...No question! Gave me an excuse to buy a hangar.
Dale
do not archive

> Robbie: I wish I had told Miriam ahead of time that our cars would
> spend alot of time outdoors while the RV was being built Smile
>
> -Stormy



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billsettle(at)bellsouth.n
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:39 pm    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

If a basement is not going to be an option for you, if you can, build yourself a dedicated shop, I.E., a detached garage in addition to your auto garage. My bride calls mine the Man Cave... Paint walls white and have lots of light. I've got 9 8' H.O. florescent fixtures in my 26' x 32' and it's not too much. Floor the attic for storage, wall outlets every 10' or so on at least 2 circuits. I didn't do this, but a bathroom would also be nice... If a detached isn't possible, I would make the primary garage a 3 bay. That way you wouldn't have to leave anything parked outside while you build.

Good Luck!

Bill Settle
Winston-Salem
RV-8 Wings.
Quote:

From: Robbie Walker <robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com>
Date: 2007/01/04 Thu AM 08:30:42 EST
To: rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Shop Ideas



Folks,
We're meeting with the builder next week to get started on our house.
I don't know why I didn't think to ask this before... I'm "behind"
this project before I even start!... but,

do any of you have any suggestions, hints, gotchas, "if I had it to
do over"'s or words of wisdom that you'd be willing to share
particularly about using a garage as a shop?
I'm hoping to not repeat other's mistakes and maybe make life a
little easier on me down the road building my RV. Things like, "I
wish I had run airlines through the walls ahead of time!", etc.

It'd probably be good for "those that come after" too.

don't hesitate to send me photos directly if you're not comfortable
sending them on the list...

Very excited!

Robbie Walker
RV Wannabe
Wilmington, NC







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pinkston(at)carolina.rr.c
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:50 pm    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

has anyone used air from air vent on side of the rv to cool avonics ?don't
want to use fan if i can get by without it. randy pinkston flying rv7a .....
YES A..... I just dont like draging my tail
---


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Larry Bowen



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 802
Location: NC, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:25 pm    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

LOL. Man cave...I like it.

--
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
do not archive

Bill Settle wrote:
Quote:

<billsettle(at)bellsouth.net>

If a basement is not going to be an option for you, if you can, build
yourself a dedicated shop, I.E., a detached garage in addition to your
auto garage. My bride calls mine the Man Cave... Paint walls white and
have lots of light. I've got 9 8' H.O. florescent fixtures in my 26' x
32' and it's not too much. Floor the attic for storage, wall outlets
every 10' or so on at least 2 circuits. I didn't do this, but a bathroom
would also be nice... If a detached isn't possible, I would make the
primary garage a 3 bay. That way you wouldn't have to leave anything
parked outside while you build.

Good Luck!

Bill Settle
Winston-Salem
RV-8 Wings.
>
> From: Robbie Walker <robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com>
> Date: 2007/01/04 Thu AM 08:30:42 EST
> To: rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Shop Ideas
>
>
> <robbie(at)atlanticpkg.com>
>
> Folks,
> We're meeting with the builder next week to get started on our house.
> I don't know why I didn't think to ask this before... I'm "behind"
> this project before I even start!... but,
>
> do any of you have any suggestions, hints, gotchas, "if I had it to
> do over"'s or words of wisdom that you'd be willing to share
> particularly about using a garage as a shop?
> I'm hoping to not repeat other's mistakes and maybe make life a
> little easier on me down the road building my RV. Things like, "I
> wish I had run airlines through the walls ahead of time!", etc.
>
> It'd probably be good for "those that come after" too.
>
> don't hesitate to send me photos directly if you're not comfortable
> sending them on the list...
>
> Very excited!
>
> Robbie Walker
> RV Wannabe
> Wilmington, NC
>




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_________________
Larry Bowen
RV-8 SOLD,
RV-7QB in progress...
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cartaire(at)hotmail.com
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:32 pm    Post subject: Shop Ideas Reply with quote

Bill-
where are you building your RV-8 wings (I see WS by your signature line)

ABF is delivering my RV-8 wings tomorrow! I'm also in WS (off ebert near
clemmonsville Rd)

I'd love to see your shop set up and progress.

Carter Wright
RV-8 ... Wings!
Winston Salem

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