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what to do with my pitot

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sperry50(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: what to do with my pitot

I am building a 601XL from a quick build kit and will be nearing the point where I have to make some pitot decisions. I plan to put in the Dynon D-100 and their website shows an optional pitot that gives angle of attack. My question is if I am building VFR do should I do it?  

I would welcome any comments from those of you who have actually used this set-up. From the looks of things the AOA pitot uses an angle of attack tube and a pitot tube but no static tube so I suppose I would have to make my own static port. The pitot that comes with the kit already has this but will not work with the AOA. Any real experienced answers would be greatly appreciated.  

Skip Perry  

601XL (quick-build with all the first run faultsJ)  

Fort Myers, Florida  

DO NOT ARCHIVE     [quote][b]

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: what to do with my pitot

Hi Skip,



 I feel your pain.



 The AOA has nothing to do with IFR flight.  It is used to tell you how close to a stall your plane is.  The notion (I haven't tried it yet, but I have been lectured continuously for a year or two by several of my local chapter members) you use the AOA to adjust your approach speed to allow minimum landing distance without getting too slow so you stall and crash.  It automatically adjusts to different aircraft loads and weather conditions so you can fly close to the edge and get maximum results.  It also can be used for minimum speed takeoff and climb.



 I think you can purchase the probe from Dynon for installation before you are ready to buy the big expensive electronic box for your instrument panel.  This is probably a good idea since they will probably improve the box in the time between your pitot installation and your first flight.  It is best to put off the purchase of any electronic stuff until you really need it.



 I can't give any great advice on the static port question.  It is somewhat a black art to determine how to position one or two of these things to give you unbiased airspeed and rate of climb readings.  Surely you don't need to do it the way the kit is arranged to get good results.



 Good luck,



 Paul

 XL fuselage



 

 At 06:33 PM 1/3/2007, you wrote:



 [quote] I am building a 601XL from a quick build kit and will be nearing the point where I have to make some pitot decisions. I plan to put in the Dynon D-100 and their website shows an optional pitot that gives angle of attack. My question is if I am building VFR do should I do it?

 

 I would welcome any comments from those of you who have actually used this set-up. From the looks of things the AOA pitot uses an angle of attack tube and a pitot tube but no static tube so I suppose I would have to make my own static port. The pitot that comes with the kit already has this but will not work with the AOA. Any real experienced answers would be greatly appreciated.

 

 Skip Perry

 

 601XL (quick-build with all the first run faultsJ )

 

 Fort Myers, Florida

 [b]

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: what to do with my pitot

Skip,



I was going to begin fabricating one last night but have the same problem you have.  I will be following Pauls suggestion and getting the Pitot / AOA from Dynon.

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

jnjkimbell(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:08 am Post subject: what to do with my pitot

Skip, I use  the Dynon D-100 and installed the AOA after the wing was  built. If you decide to use it, do it now, kBey difficult later, but  doable.  The AOA is basically a stall indicator and I got it for my 701 to  help on short field landings. Turned out to be wasted money and time on my AC as  my stall (read mush) speed with power off is to slow for Dynon to read. Probably  would not be a problem on the 601.  Not much help for your setup, but as  they say, My 2 cents worth.  DO not archive.  Joe from Fl.-----  Original Message ----- 

 [quote]   From:    Skip    Perry (sperry50(at)comcast.net) 

   To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com) 

   Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 9:33    PM

   Subject: what to do with my    pitot

I am building a    601XL from a quick build kit and will be nearing the point    where I have to    make some pitot decisions. I plan to put in the Dynon D-100 and their website    shows an optional piton that gives angle of attack. My question is    if I am    building VFR do should I do    it?   

I    would welcome any comments from those of you who have actually used this    set-up. From the looks of things the AOA pitot uses an angle of attack tube and    a pitot tube but no static tube so I suppose I would have to make    my own static port. The pitot that comes with the kit already has this but    will not work with the AOA. Any real experienced answers would be greatly    appreciated.   

Skip Perry   

601XL (quick-build with all the first run faultsJ)   

Fort Myers, Florida   

DO NOT ARCHIVE 	  Quote: 	

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

[b]

dbortol

Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 46

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: what to do with my pitot

My plan is to use the D-100 (or whatever is around by the time I get

to that point!) without the AOA feature, and the lift reserve

indicator (LRI) as described on ch601.org. The LRI will keep right on

going should the EFIS quit for any reason, and along with a few other

backup instruments should allow a safe conclusion to the flight.



Dino Bortolin

601XL/Corvair (tail)



[quote] from Fl.---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:28 am Post subject: what to do with my pitot

The static port is  usually positioned at a point on the fuselage where the Bernoulli principal is  least.  This will be a relatively flat place which is parallel to the  direction of travel.  It can also be part of the pitot probe.  I'm  sure the plans for your plane will give you the optimum  location.

  

 My advice is to install  two static ports, one on the opposite side of the fuselage, and Tee them  together to the static port of your ASI, Alt and VSI inputs.  That way a  slip or uncoordinated flight won't upset your EFIS readings.   

  

 As for the AOA probe I'd go for  it because it can come in handy when you are used to using it.  some call  the AOA a lift reserve indicator.  The idea is to touch down just as  the wing stalls and to take off as soon after wing stall as possible.   Weight of the probe is not too much of a factor just remember with two pitots  you will have to keep the probe covered on the ground.  Sort of a double  jeopardy.

   

 The pricing of electronic  flight instruments has been more or less stable over the last few years and no  doubt newer and better will come along but you want to fly  today.

  



 

Noel [quote]   

    	  Quote: 	
		  I am building a 601XL from a quick build kit and will be nearing the      point where I have to make some pitot decisions. I plan      to put in the Dynon D-100 and their website shows an optional pitot that      gives angle of attack. My question is if I am building VFR do should I do it?



I would welcome any comments from those      of you who have actually used this set-up. From the looks of things the AOA pitot      uses an angle of attack tube and a pitot tube but no static tube so      I suppose I would have to make my own static port.      The pitot that comes with the kit already has this but will not work with      the AOA. Any real experienced answers would be greatly      appreciated.



Skip      Perry



601XL      (quick-build with all the first run faultsJ )



Fort Myers,      Florida





href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



	
[b]

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:09 am Post subject: what to do with my pitot

The pitot that came with your kit has two probes, one is a pitot tube and the other is a static source. I recommend buying and learning to use the AOA sensing probe from Dynon if you are going to use their EFIS/EIS unit. Approach and deparutre flown by reference to a calibrated, functioning AOA system is much safer than trying to calculate stall speed in various weather conditions, aircraft configurations and weights.



Mount the kit provided unit on the opposite wing following the plans' directions. You can either "T" the pitot lines together and the unit will "see" the average of the two installations, or you can connect them to a valve accessible inflight to establish an "either/or" option. Either one will work with the Dynon unit's airspeed sensing device. The benefit of two pitot tubes is that one can smack a bug and cease to function until you land and clear it.... rare but possible. 



The kit provided static source can be used as your only one or can be backed up by a second one (they have been known to ice over). 



Ed Moody II

Rayne, LA

601XL/Jabiru/Flap motor



 	  Quote: 	
		   I am building a 601XL from a quick build kit and will be nearing the point

 where I have to make some pitot decisions. I plan to put in the Dynon D-100

 and their website shows an optional pitot that gives angle of attack. My

 question is if I am building VFR do should I do it?

pilot4pay

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Louisville, KY

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:37 am Post subject: what to do with my pitot

I would like to give the group a heads up as to another valuable function of

the AOA indicator. It can be used to determine your aircrafts most efficient

cruise angle of attack. By taking a series of data points (MP, Fuel flow,

IAS, AOA) plot the data on a graph and find you optimum AOA. This ideal AOA

is the same for all weights.

I would refer you to FLYING HIGH PERFORMANCE SINGLES AND TWINS by John

Eckalbar Ch. 9.

For now I'll spare you all the math and such, but the AOA really is useful

for more than just flying the approach phase of flight. It can help you

stretch your fuel, and learn if airframe modifications help or hinder your

efficiency.

Craig Smith

Future CH801 builder

_________________
Craig Smith
CH640 builder
SN: 0078

"Just think how stupid the average person is,
and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
--George Carlin

pacificpainting(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: what to do with my pitot

I'm using a unit from riteangle(at)aoa.com. I have never had better customer 

service. It doesn't use probes that can get plugged up. Check it out.



Dave

---

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:57 am Post subject: Re: what to do with my pitot

I too am going with the Dynon but I finished my wings before I made that decision. So I only have 2 pitot/static lines running out to the wing and I have the holes positioned for the factory pitot/static tube.



I chose not to go ahead and mount the tube at the time because I figured it would get broken off during moving the wing around.



My plan now is to use the Dynon probe with AOA and use the two lines that are out there for Pitot and AOA and mount the static port somewhere on the fuselage.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:09 am Post subject: what to do with my pitot

If a late installation is necessary, cut an inspection port at the pitot / AOA location and do the installation on the hatch cover. Some guys in the list have done that from the get-go just to facillitate removing the pitot rig to prevent damage in storage and handling of the wings.



Ed Moody II



---- Joe and Joan <jnjkimbell(at)HOTMAIL.COM> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   what to do with my pitotSkip, I use  the Dynon D-100 and installed the AOA after the wing was built. If you decide to use it, do it now, kBey difficult later, but doable.

btucke73(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: what to do with my pitot

Skip,



     I installed the Dynon pitot tube, intending on

using the Dynon unit in the future.  I did not install

it.  the unheated pitot tube from dynon is not too

expensive, and is of good quality.  Even if you do not

use the AOA function of the Dynon in the future, you

will have installed a nice pitot tube.  I plan to add

a LRI sometime soon, connecting it to the dynon probe.

 



     I installed the static port half way between the

wing and the horizontal stabilizer, with good results.

 



     As Paul mentioned, AOA indication compensates for

aircraft weight.  It tells you exactly what is going

on with your wing.  Whenever we were in the landing

configuration in the Hornet, after the initial

airspeed check, we never referenced the airspeed

indicator again.  We flew completely off of AOA

indication.  This allowed us to land on the carrier at

the slowest practical speed, regardless of aircraft

weight.  Maximum trap was 34000 lbs, and typical empty

weights were 25 - 26000 lbs.  Calculating the landing

speed based on this kind of weight difference is not

the kind of cockpit math I wanted to do, especially

when trying to land on the postage stamp.  



     Unless you are dropping into very small

airfields, you may never use it.  But...



VR/



Brandon Tucker

601 HDS / TD / Corvair

45 hours



__________________________________________________

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:29 am Post subject: Re: what to do with my pitot

Where exactly did you place the Static port? I've been looking for an answer to that question for a while now.



 	  btucke73(at)yahoo.com wrote: 	
		  Skip,



    

     I installed the static port half way between the

wing and the horizontal stabilizer, with good results.

 



Brandon Tucker

601 HDS / TD / Corvair

45 hours

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

paulhartl(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: what to do with my pitot

Hi Skip,



 I have the Dynon D10 (early model) in my HDS and use their pitot tube for 

both IAS and AOA.  I highly recommend using Dynon's pitot with their

instrument - it works well, and AOA is (once properly calibrated) the 

instrument that you will grow to love.  It's what the Navy teaches their 

carrier

pilots to watch most closely on approach for carrier landings, and it will 

help you nail your landings, too - once you learn to use it.  It also could 

save

your life by helping to avoid the classic base-to-final stall/spin accident.

Paul Hartl, N414PZ, 601 HDS, Jab 3300A

82 hours, 96 landings - lots of fun!

Hailey, Idaho

http://members.cox.net/paulhartl/

RURUNY(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject: what to do with my pitot

Hey Skip,

  

 I purchased that Dynon pitot tube for my D10-A and it is a solid and heavy  installation compared to the stock pitot with the kit. My 701 did not come with  any static port parts or a pitot with a static port. You will also need a  pitot mast and plumbing to finish this installation, they are both available at  http://www.safeair1.com .I did  purchase a pitot with a static port before I decided on a Dynon. But I wanted  the option to not install the Dynon pitot tube If I wanted. I had made an  access panel for inspection of the strut attachment on my 701, but also made the  access the mounting point for the pitot. I made 2 exact panels and then  installed the dynon on one and the dual pitot static on the other. This way I  can change them out easily. I also installed static ports on the fuselage, so I  have a static port while using the dynon pitot(got that from safeair also). The  AOA blue tube becomes another static port with the other pitot.

 The pitot mast is steel. If someone bumps into this hard enough I could see  it ripping open my .016 wing instead of breaking off. Just make sure you run 2  tubes to your pitot area. I'm sure this could be an option for you to do. If  your getting a Dynon it would be kind of a waste not taking advantage of this  feature, but it costs a couple bucks to do. See pics attached.

  

 Brian

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gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject: what to do with my pitot

Skip

  I'm flying with both the Dynon D100 and D180 with the Dynon pitot.  I use 

a split feed to both units for the AOA and Pitot.  In addition I installed 2 

  Static  ports on the rear of the fuse T'd along the lower longeron just in 

front of the stab and split to the two Dynon units.  I mounted the Dynon 

pitot in the center of a round inspection plate. I like the set  up very 

much and would recommend it for your VFR needs. With 40 flight hours so far 

all is working well.



George May

601XL  912s   40 hours

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Skip Perry" <sperry50(at)comcast.net>

Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

To: <zenith-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: what to do with my pitot

Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 21:33:43 -0500



I am building a 601XL from a quick build kit and will be nearing the point

where I have to make some pitot decisions. I plan to put in the Dynon D-100

and their website shows an optional pitot that gives angle of attack. My

question is if I am building VFR do should I do it?



I would welcome any comments from those of you who have actually used this

set-up. From the looks of things the AOA pitot uses an angle of attack tube

and a pitot tube but no static tube so I suppose I would have to make my 

own

static port. The pitot that comes with the kit already has this but will 

not

work with the AOA. Any real experienced answers would be greatly

appreciated.



Skip Perry

601XL (quick-build with all the first run faults:-))

Fort Myers, Florida



DO NOT ARCHIVE




	


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btucke73(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: what to do with my pitot

Gig,



     I put my static port about mid way between the

trailing edge of the wing and the leading edge of the

horizontal stab.  It is pretty much centered between

the vertical stiffening ribs, and the upper and lower

longerons.  This is the approximate location of the

static port on the T-34c, so I just went with it.  My

EFIS requires calibrating the airspeed indicator,

which I did with GPS.  It is tracking very nicely now.

 



disclaimer:  You should follow the plans.  If you

don't, this location worked for me.



VR/



Brandon

HDS / 46 hours



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