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Jab Versus 912.

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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:09 am Post subject: Jab Versus 912.

Ok I did a search as well and found a few posts interesting reads , one from 

Lowell on this list.

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44397

Althogh no factual info on Jabs, still a good read.



I know thats the Jab are a pretty good setup from what i has seen ohers doin 

g lately and I have  frined doing  3300 in Sonex that shoudl fly this 

summer.   The only draw back of the Jabirus that I know of is that you limit 

your self to a shorter prop due to the higher RPM on the Jab.   For Cruise I 

think the Jab is good all round but for a floatplane I think  your takeoff 

performance would definaetly suffer somewhat.



My next project will be a Kitfox IV with 914 and I don't think you will see 

and Jabirus passing me 



Dave

Here is some talk of the topic here

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/printthread.php?t=9818&pp=40

well talked about and the last post from this guy  has some good points

      PepeBorja 08-23-2006 12:39 PM

There's no difference between theory and practice.



In practice there is. (Yogi Berra)



With that out of the way I will share with you my personal experience with 

the 912S engines and Jabiru engines we fly in our Titan Tornado exp 

airplanes.



We have four 912S and 2 Jabiru 2200 powered planes in my area. My 912S 

Tornado just went over the 500 Hour mark with nothing but oil and spark plug 

changes. It does not use oil and looks as clean as the day it came out of 

the box. It uses Honda motorcycle oil, NGK auto plugs, and auto gas (100LL 

in x-country mode)



We have almost 3000 hours of total time accumulated in the four 912S engines 

in my area, all of them trouble free with only the aforementioned 

maintenance and the routine carb synch job needed with the dual carb set-up. 

That's basically 3000 hours of $0 spent on failed parts operating 4 engines 

(some of us upgraded to a new hi-torque starter that came form the 80HP 

legacy so we spent some dough on upgrades).



I know of two operators that reached the earlier 1000 TBO in the 80HP 

version and Lockwood found them in good shape and declared them fit to 

continue flying without the need for new parts or machining work. That's the 

sort of experience that pushed the TBO to the 1500 mark it currently has.



The two Jabiru airplanes had their share of issues. One is an early model 

and had the heads warp once due to heat stress and had to be resurfaced. One 

a different flight, one of the distributor shafts (Honda car part) galled 

away causing one side of the ignition to fail.



The other jabiru engine is about two years old and has failed twice in 

flight, the first one resulting in the aircraft destruction. The second one 

was a lubrication issue that gave the pilot enough time to make it back down 

safely and save the airplane (second one due to an improperly installed oil 

seal). The dealer took the engine with less than 150 hours on the clock back 

and replaced it with a new one.



It is noteworthy to say that both Jabiru engine owners experienced carb ice 

in moderate weather conditions, specially at idle during final or whilst 

taxing. Carb-DeIce is a must if you are going to use the Jabiru engine. Some 

guys are using electric heathers around the carb intake to alleviate the 

problem.



While many seem to complain over the liquid cooled engine, they do not 

realize the benefits that the 912S has over other non certificated engines:



1. Parts and EXPERT Service is available throughout the country

2. It has a certificated cousin in the lineage

3. Virtually carb-ice fool-proof

4. No Mixture adjustments needed

5. Free, SAFE, easy to get cabin heat

6. Constant temps, no shock cooling

7. Modern engine construction with close tolerances

8. Owner support through the Rotax owner website publishing SB's and AD's

9. Comprehensive repair manuals are available

10. Thousands of hours of operation experience

11. Gear box allows for less stress on the engine and deliver equal torque 

to the prop

12. Able to use composite propellers from many vendors

13. Able to use constant speed and in-flight variable pitch propellers

14. Vacuum pump and aux generator available

15. Thousands of engines flying world wide

16. Starts easily in the winter time here in Wisconsin (NO PREHEAT NEEDED)

17. Able to use synthetic oils



I personally think that Van's decision on going the 912S route is a good 

one, especially with those of us that are familiar with the engine and have 

hundreds of hours operating one and realize how good an engine it is. On the 

other hand, that choice may not go very well with those GA pilots that seem 

to trust only Lycs and Conts and dismiss the Rotax/Jabiru/<name your engine 

here> brands.



I just completed a 1300 mile x-country trip in my 912S Tornado. It cruised 

at 100K sipping 5GPH and never had to monkey around with carb mix, worry 

about carb ice or add oil in the almost 14 hours I spent away from home. 

Heck, It has 50 hours since my last oil change and the oil level is right 

where it was 50 hours ago! It starts instantly and the temps remain constant 

all the times. Overall, I know at least 20 Rotax 912S owners and their 

experiences are similar to mine with only routine maintenance performed.



The grapevine tells the Jabiru 2200 has their teething problems fixed and is 

becoming a very reliable powerplant. Problem is you still have an engine 

that is air-cooled, needs pre-heat, suffers carb-ice, revs at too high-rpm, 

is limited to short wooden props, has only 2 service centers in the country 

and has virtually no factory support for SB's and ADs.



While I am not crazy about the RV12 design (bland, uninspiring, and too 

Zenith/<insert Euro design name her> like looking), I think Van's reputation 

alone will be worth a few hundred sales amongst those seeking an LSA 

airplane. The cost of fuel is making it more attractive now to use these 

5GPH power plants and get more clock-time per dollar vs. miles per dollar, 

depending on whatever makes you click.



Spend a few a hours talking to Rotax 912 and 912S engine operators before 

you make a decision on whether a 912 engine is for you or not.



Jose Borja

Elk Mound, WI

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wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Jab Versus 912.

Those are comforting words for this 912UL owner. I wasn't really serious about wishing for a jabiru. Since we're sharing personal experience though, it's worth noting that my 912 leaks oil and coolant, is a pain to start compared to the C150 I trained in and the previous owner experience one in flight engine failure that ended in a complete motor rebuild. I'm hopeful that the coolant leak is just a loose hose clamp but the oil leak is coming from a seam in the rear accessory case. Not a big deal but it does make a mess on the hangar floor.



-Luis

-824KF

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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