 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: RV Crash,, reverse action |
 |
|
If the legal system operates on this bizarre nature then I suggest switching rolls. For all the people who witnessed this crash caused by the widows husband ,because of his lack of preflight to assure the controls were "FREE AND CORRECT", alot of poor people are mentally scarred for life after seeing a human crash right in front of their eyes and burn to death. The widow now has 6 million bucks to pay out to those with mental anguish. Heck, any jury can and will find for the spectators. Now, I didn't see this horrible accident but have lost sleep lately because of reading about it on various places. I am now suffering from the pilots actions and I should file suit too.. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander........
do not archive, I think
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
jpl(at)showpage.org wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, I think the problem is that most of us don't think the EMS team
should be held responsible for being slow, and certainly not to this
amount, regardless of the details.
|
I understand that. I even share some of those concerns (except for the "regardless of the details" part. Those tend to matter to me). But, then again, I didn't have a loved one burn to death, either.
Like I said, however, it depends on whether the guy could have survived his injuries. I haven't seen the autopsy report. I presume the jury did.
If the guy could have lived but died because the agency responsible for emergency response was unreasonably slow (again, I'm not saying they were. I'm not saying they weren't), then that would seem to me there's something to deliberate over.
As for you not thinking the EMS should be held liable, I fully appreciate that stance which, I assume, is formed via some deliberation in your own mind. But I actually DO respect the jury process becuase juries are made up of people like you and me and everyone else we know and while it's fun to say "juries are stupid," I don't think you're stupid, and I don't think I'm stupid.
I don't know, by the way, if you've ever sat in a courtroom as a judge instructs a jury but it's an excrutiatingly long process and very intricate with specifics about what can and what can't be considered.
I don't know what the judge's instructions were in this case but, again, I DO know that there's more to this story than what ANN , in its less-than-objective fashion, decided to write. And, of course, they weren't there either.
As someone said earlier, just as we demand that people hold off judging what happened in any plane crash until the facts are known, so too is it an appropriate instruction here.
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88428#88428 [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Bob Collins
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:57 am Post subject: RV Crash,, reverse action |
|
|
I've seen this stated as fact thta the problem was the aircraft controls were hindered by the fact the seat belt was left looped around the right stick. There was a witness who said when it was on the ground he saw it that way, but stated thta he doesn't remember seeing the elevator in the up position on taxi out. The NTSB noted that but also said, "During the investigation, the right control stick was inspected to determine if any evidence could be found that would indicate the pilot had left the right seat belt looped around the stick. Although there were other places in the cockpit where portions of burned or melted seatbelt material was found, no such indications were seen on the right control stick. In addition, there were no gouges, scrapes, scarring or any other indication consistent with seatbelt buckle interference/contact on the front of the stick."
As near as I can tell, there's nothing in the findings of the NTSB that said this is why the airplane crash. So I'm curious as to where that is stated since several messages have indicated as fact that this is what happened.
ANd thanks!
//Heck, any jury can and will find for the spectators
This also being stated as fact, apparently no case involving a jury has ever been found in favor of the defense. Really?
Do not archive
Bob
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of n801bh(at)netzero.com
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 9:14 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: RV Crash,, reverse action
If the legal system operates on this bizarre nature then I suggest switching rolls. For all the people who witnessed this crash caused by the widows husband ,because of his lack of preflight to assure the controls were "FREE AND CORRECT", alot of poor people are mentally scarred for life after seeing a human crash right in front of their eyes and burn to death. The widow now has 6 million bucks to pay out to those with mental anguish. Heck, any jury can and will find for the spectators. Now, I didn't see this horrible accident but have lost sleep lately because of reading about it on various places. I am now suffering from the pilots actions and I should file suit too.. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander........
do not archive, I think
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
jpl(at)showpage.org wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, I think the problem is that most of us don't think the EMS team
should be held responsible for being slow, and certainly not to this
amount, regardless of the details.
|
I understand that. I even share some of those concerns (except for the "regardless of the details" part. Those tend to matter to me). But, then again, I didn't have a loved one burn to death, either.
Like I said, however, it depends on whether the guy could have survived his injuries. I haven't seen the autopsy report. I presume the jury did.
If the guy could have lived but died because the agency responsible for emergency response was unreasonably slow (again, I'm not saying they were. I'm not saying they weren't), then that would seem to me there's something to deliberate over.
As for you not thinking the EMS should be held liable, I fully appreciate that stance which, I assume, is formed via some deliberation in your own mind. But I actually DO respect the jury process becuase juries are made up of people like you and me and everyone else we know and while it's fun to say "juries are stupid," I don't think you're stupid, and I don't think I'm stupid.
I don't know, by the way, if you've ever sat in a courtroom as a judge instructs a jury but it's an excrutiatingly long process and very intricate with specifics about what can and what can't be considered.
I don't know what the judge's instructions were in this case but, again, I DO know that there's more to this story than what ANN , in its less-than-objective fashion, decided to write. And, of course, they weren't there either.
As someone said earlier, just as we demand that people hold off judging what happened in any plane crash until the facts are known, so too is it an appropriate instruction here.
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88428#88428[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: RV Crash,, reverse action |
|
|
To put a fine turn to this, the NTSB did not find evidence to indicate that the seat belt was looped on the stick and this was the cause of the accident. However, this does not make the converse true-that because the NTSB did not find conclusive evidence that the stick was secured, doesn't mean that it didn't happen and was the promixate cause of the crash. What's disappointing is they looked for burned, melted belt material, nicks scrapes, scarring, yet they ere no reference to whether the passenger seat belt was found in a buckled condition. That, in itself would not be conclusive evidence that the stick was secured by the seat belt, but it would be consistent with that being the case.
Even though the NTSB couldn't find strong proof (or any proof, for that matter) certainly doesn't mean it didn't happen that way. In fact, the direct observation, behavior of the pilot (in a hurry), somewhat disorientated (went to the wrong runway/intersection) and the flight profile are all totally consistent with the stick being secured by the passenger seat belt. Probably rises to the 'preponderance of the evidence' to support this hypothesis.
But, as Bob has repeatedly pointed out, the secured stick may well have been the cause of the accident, but that has no bearing (apparently) on what the jury considered and why they awarded money. That action was based on post-impact actions or inactions.
Chuck Jensen
--
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lhelming(at)sigecom.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject: RV Crash,, reverse action |
|
|
Perhaps the surviving family would be happier had the pilot survived his error and lived with 3rd degree burns all over the body. Pain and around the clock care would be the result. As I see it, It could be a blessing that the pilot died and the family relieved of the burden. I remember the movie, "English Patient" where the survivor pilot asked to be over drugged to stop his life after his crash and sufferings in recovery. do not archive
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tedd(at)vansairforce.org
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:36 pm Post subject: RV Crash,, reverse action |
|
|
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, Chuck Jensen wrote:
| Quote: | ...yet they ere no reference to whether the passenger seat belt was found in
a buckled condition. That, in itself would not be conclusive evidence that
the stick was secured by the seat belt, but it would be consistent with that
being the case.
|
I can't speak for anyone else, but my unoccupied belts are always fastened when
I take off. (And so are the occuped ones!)
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
DO NOT ARCHIVE
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
n616tb(at)btsapps.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: RV Crash,, reverse action |
|
|
AND, the only belt I ever fasten around the stick is my own. I assume I
would have a difficult time getting in if I didn't undo it first.
Tim
[quote] --
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
