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Kolb glider
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kolbmark3

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Mt Clemens, MI

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:23 am Post subject: Kolb glider

"The Kolbs drop like a rock" - not really! Granted, it is not like a  glider, but having experienced at least ten "engine outs" from as low as 300  feet to as high as 2000 feet, the Mark III does give you some time to  land. But in any plane, even a GA, it is always a good idea (read life saver) to  have a potential landing site picked out.

  

 Jim

 Mark III

    [quote][b]

_________________
Jim
Mark III
Mt. Clemens, MI

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:45 am Post subject: Kolb glider

Let me rephrase it then, I don't know many other planes that have a worse 

glide ratio.

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "flykolb" <flykolb(at)wowway.com>

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Kolb glider

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 08:27:50 -0500

"The Kolbs drop like a rock" - not really! Granted, it is not like a 

glider, but having experienced at least ten "engine outs" from as low as 

300 feet to as high as 2000 feet, the Mark III does give you some time to 

land. But in any plane, even a GA, it is always a good idea (read life 

saver) to have a potential landing site picked out.

Jim

Mark III

APilot(at)webtv.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: Kolb glider

Very good point.  Another reason to become proficient at the 180 degree

turn back to the runway.  Practice at altitude - use it in an emergency.

I have had well over  a dozen engine outs in ultralights which were all

my fault.  And two in Cessna 150's and one was my fault.  But, no matter

whose fault it is, it is good to have a safe place to land when to ole

beater quits..

APilot(at)webtv.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:43 am Post subject: Kolb glider

Race for worst glide ratio..........Ercoupe or Piper Colt or Kolb?

Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 364

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: Kolb glider

To be Fair in this comparison I think you need to add in the factor of available landing sites that offer no damage to the aircraft. My Long-EZ had a glide ratio of over 20 to 1 with the blades stopped but there are few and far between landing sites. In comparison, my Firefly on floats probably has less than 8 to 1 but even at an altitude of 100 ft I can land with no damage  99.99999% of the time. Point is, There are other factors more important than Glide ratio.

    

   Steve

   FF #007 on Floats

    

  

 --

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: Kolb glider

David



Kolbs are ultra low speed STOL airplanes. They have very large props for 

their size and weight that create considerable drag when they stop. But it 

is that large prop that makes these airplanes fly as well as they do. If you 

compare a Kolb to a similar type of aircraft they do fairly well. You appear 

to be comparing them to gliders or other streamlined GA aircraft. In a 

airplane everything is a tradeoff. If we were to compare the features that 

these planes were designed for against most any other airplane we would blow 

them away. Again everything is a trade off and comparisons with other 

categories of aircraft just don't make sense.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIc

---

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:50 am Post subject: Kolb glider

sometimes when someone is new to Kolbs it's a wise idea to clue them into 

the fact that they wont have as much glide as they did in other aircraft. 

People tend to compare things that they shouldn't especially when they don't 

have experience with them. I'm sticking with they drop like a rock and 

that's where I'll look for my fields, you do whatever works for you. 

[quote]From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Kolb glider

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:17:10 -0500




<NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>



David



Kolbs are ultra low speed STOL airplanes. They have very large props for 

their size and weight that create considerable drag when they stop. But it 

is that large prop that makes these airplanes fly as well as they do. If 

you compare a Kolb to a similar type of aircraft they do fairly well. You 

appear to be comparing them to gliders or other streamlined GA aircraft. In 

a airplane everything is a tradeoff. If we were to compare the features 

that these planes were designed for against most any other airplane we 

would blow them away. Again everything is a trade off and comparisons with 

other categories of aircraft just don't make sense.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIc

---

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:49 am Post subject: Kolb glider

Hello,



My advise to all Kolb newbees,



Please ignore the advise of "the experts"  who claim to have  

experienced 10 or 12 engine outs.

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:16 am Post subject: Kolb glider

At 09:43 AM 1/23/2007, APilot(at)webtv.net wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Race for worst glide ratio..........Ercoupe or Piper Colt or Kolb?


	


Hah!  I haven't flown my Kolb yet, but it CAN'T be worse than the 

Quicksilver I was flying last year!



OTOH, I actually soared my T-Craft a couple of times with the engine off....



                                 -Dana

--

--

But if we LEGALIZE it, we can't take your HOUSE!

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:22 am Post subject: Kolb glider

At 10:52 AM 1/23/2007, n27sb(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  To be Fair in this comparison I think you need to add in the factor of 

available landing sites that offer no damage...my Firefly on floats 

probably has less than 8 to 1 but even at an altitude of 100 ft I can land 

with no damage  99.99999% of the time. Point is, There are other factors 

more important than Glide ratio.


	


True, I fly PPG too... an unpowered PG does about 8:1 but it's probably 

closer to 6:1 with a stopped motor... but when you can fly a 50' circle and 

land with a few running steps even in no wind, you have a large pick of 

landing sites even with the crappy ratio.



                                 -Dana

--

--

But if we LEGALIZE it, we can't take your HOUSE!

jim

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 107
Location: N. Idaho

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:46 am Post subject: Kolb glider

I sold my Quicksilver MX in Aug 2006 to buy a Kolb Firefly (which I got in

October).  I expected the Firefly to glide better, but it's actually

worse.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Hah!  I haven't flown my Kolb yet, but it CAN'T be worse than the

 Quicksilver I was flying last year!

_________________
Jim
N. Idaho

kolbmark3

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Mt Clemens, MI

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:26 am Post subject: Kolb glider

I certainly do not claim to be an "expert" nor do I "claim" to have had at

least 10 engines out - it's a fact Jack!



All I'm saying is that a Kolb does not "drop like a rock" - which is

straight down! Many on the Kolb list have experienced engine failure and

have "glided" to a safe landing. Some have not but even those did not "drop

like a rock". I just don't want to scare people who think that when an

engine quits on any plane it "drops out of the sky". Always have a good

landing site picked out no matter what you fly.



Peace and good flying.



Jim

---

_________________
Jim
Mark III
Mt. Clemens, MI

N111KX (Kip)

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 96
Location: Atlanta, GA

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb glider

There are some dead-stick videos here where, for a rock, I have lot's of time to enjoy the view...

Kip



http://gyrobuilder.homelinux.org/gallery2/v/monarch_flight/july2006/?g2_page=4

_________________
Kip
Firestar II, N111KX
Waiex, N111YX
Quickie 1, N111QX
Atlanta

a58r(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject: Kolb glider

TriPacer worse than Colt...dang nose thing-y grabs a load of wind.



BUTT, I got the FireFly to fly with "power," which it does as an  

airplane (=vehicle in faa-speak). Anything else is just gravy/gravity.

regards,

Bob N.    FireFly 070 Old Kolb

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/



do not archive

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject: Kolb glider

my Firefly on floats probably has less than 8 to 1  but even at an altitude of 100 ft I can land with no damage  99.99999% of  the time..>>

  

 well if you only fly over water all you have to do  is wait a bit and then flare. Heh Heh.

  

 I have had to land quickly twice in my Challenger  when the toothed belt drive to the prop shed its teeth. Similar sort of glide  performance as a Firefly I should think. It doesn`t `drop like a rock` but from  the sort of height I usually fly, under 2000 ft, you  look for a landing  place in an emergency  right underneath you because you are not going to  have time to fly around searching for a spot. By the time you have flown a 360  looking for a place you had better be lined up on finals.

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

  

 do not archive

   [quote][b]

GeoR38

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 60
Location: The Villages, fl

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject: Kolb glider

In a message dated 1/23/2007 3:07:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  n111kx(at)mindspring.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  http://gyrobuilder.homelinux.org/gallery2/v/monarch_flight/july2006/?g2_page=4

	


 

 I can't let you guys get away with such bad press on the Kolb glide, which  admittedly is by no means superior, but it is not as bad as the sound of your  dialog. I am a glider pilot, albeit way back in '80 in El Paso and Las Cruzes  NM, so I actually know the L/D that real gliders have. 

  

 my time in the Schweizer 233 and the 126 produced 20 to 1 or 25 to 1 L/D.  On the field was an old old glider used before the Big One in the '30s and it  had an L/D of 11 to 1. It was actually built a little like the Firestar inasmuch  as it was a high wing with a  boom going back to the tail and a semi-open  cockpit. 

 It was a glider only.

 And it was 11:1. 

  

 I have tested my Firestar KX many times and it always tests our at 9 or 9.5  to1. But every test was with the engine at idle.You could tell that the spinning  prop was a brake as it was necessary to fire up the RPMs quite high, at least  above 3000 rpm,Afore any assist was felt on the airframe.,  And I do not  mean the aircraft was anywhere near climb mode.  It was still mushing, but  it seemed that the prop was not offering drag around that rpm.

  

 I have never killed power completely, but I suspect that if the prop were  stopped, the L/D would probably increase to at least 10:1....which is close to  that ol training glider on my field way back in '80

  

 My Firestar only has a 5 rib wing and is probably a little liter than the  KXP, but a heavier glider has more penetration so ....who knows what the KXP  has?

  

 Firestar Driver from The Villages Florida

 George Randolph

  [quote][b]

_________________
George Randolph
Firestar driver, The Villages, fl

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: Kolb glider

At 01:45 PM 1/23/2007, Jim Dunn wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I sold my Quicksilver MX in Aug 2006 to buy a Kolb Firefly (which I got in

October).  I expected the Firefly to glide better, but it's actually

worse.


	


Hmmm, one of the guys I was sharing an MX with flew my Ultrastar a few 

times (before I bought it) and said compared to the MX, "it's a real 

floater".  I don't know how the US glide compares to the Firefly, though.



Hopefully in a month or two I'll see for myself...



                                 -Dana

--

--

But if we LEGALIZE it, we can't take your HOUSE!

possums(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject: Kolb glider

At 11:50 AM 1/23/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I'm sticking with they drop like a rock and that's where I'll look 

for my fields, you do whatever works for you. 


	


Maybe a rock with "wings"?

Get to post my tired old video again!



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9177096133625180462&hl=en

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb glider

I don't think they saw your video...otherwise they'd be sing'n a different tune...



     Lotsa time , lota glide.....HEY , You got Helium in dat thing ???

          Gotta Fly...

                           Mike & "Jaz" in MN

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject: Kolb glider

| I sold my Quicksilver MX in Aug 2006 to buy a Kolb Firefly (which I 

got in

| October).  I expected the Firefly to glide better, but it's actually

| worse.

Jim D:



You  musta got a bad one.  The good ones fly pretty darn good, like 

all Kolb airplanes.



john h

mkIII



DO NOT ARCHIVE

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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