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Fuel Flow, continued.Fuel Flow, continued.

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MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:36 am Post subject: Fuel Flow, continued.Fuel Flow, continued.

Bradley sez:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I set my system up as two totally seperate, redundant systems. I 

have no interconnect between tanks. I installed a left-off-right 

valve...My header is my lifeline.


	


I'm confused by your description, Bradley.  How is this different 

than the factory set up?  Each wing tank normally feeds the header, 

many builders include an inline valve between each wing tank and the 

header, and the header is vented to the right wing tank.



Can you describe your installation in more detail?



Mike G.

N728KF

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Beemer

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
Location: Middle Georgia

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow, continued.Fuel Flow, continued.

It's not that much different from many of yours, but much different than the

Model 2 instructions show.



First of all, I have 6gal in the left, 12 gal in the right, and the small

aluminum header right behind the firewall.



I have no tank interconnect that vents both tanks together. The only vents

are the individual caps. I did this mainly to stop siphoning between the

tanks while parked.



I also have each tank flow to a left-off-right valve near the header tank.

The M2 manual shows the shut-offs behind the pilot (SB'd out), and both

tanks went to the sides of the header tank. Mine has a single line from the

L-O-R valve to the flow sender then to the header. From there, to a firewall

shut-off valve, to the FI pump, then to the motor. From the FI/TBI, excess

fuel returns to the other side of the header.



My header is a closed system, in that it is not vented at all under normal

conditions. I did not run the vent up to the wing tank. I have a purge valve

to the top to burp it, even in flight. I installed an ACS fuel level switch

with an LED in the panel. If that light comes on, my header level is

falling, and I open the purge valve to burp it. Both vertical distance and

cap vent tube force the bubble out and re-fill the tank.



While sitting tail down with half tanks, I get 4-5gph flow to the header. In

flight attitude, it's over 10gph. Since I only use 2 gph on my motor, it

meets the FAA 150% flow rule by a large margin.



Bradley



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_________________
Beemer
KF2 (and now an M3!)
Suzuki G10 three-banger
Middle Georgia

dgolden(at)golden-consult
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow, continued.Fuel Flow, continued.

Bradley M Webb wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 It's not that much different from many of yours, but much different than the

 Model 2 instructions show.

 

 First of all, I have 6gal in the left, 12 gal in the right, and the small

 aluminum header right behind the firewall.

 

 I have no tank interconnect that vents both tanks together. The only vents

 are the individual caps. I did this mainly to stop siphoning between the

 tanks while parked.

 

 I also have each tank flow to a left-off-right valve near the header tank.

 The M2 manual shows the shut-offs behind the pilot (SB'd out), and both

 tanks went to the sides of the header tank. Mine has a single line from the

 L-O-R valve to the flow sender then to the header. From there, to a firewall

 shut-off valve, to the FI pump, then to the motor. From the FI/TBI, excess

 fuel returns to the other side of the header.

 

 My header is a closed system, in that it is not vented at all under normal

 conditions. I did not run the vent up to the wing tank. I have a purge valve

 to the top to burp it, even in flight. I installed an ACS fuel level switch

 with an LED in the panel. If that light comes on, my header level is

 falling, and I open the purge valve to burp it. Both vertical distance and

 cap vent tube force the bubble out and re-fill the tank.

 

 While sitting tail down with half tanks, I get 4-5gph flow to the header. In

 flight attitude, it's over 10gph. Since I only use 2 gph on my motor, it

 meets the FAA 150% flow rule by a large margin.


	


What engine are you using to get a 2gph fuel burn?



 	  Quote: 	
		   Bradley


	


<snip>

-- 

Dennis Golden

Golden Consulting Services, Inc.

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Beemer

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
Location: Middle Georgia

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 am Post subject: Fuel Flow, continued.Fuel Flow, continued.

The Geo 1.0L three cylinder. 3.5gph on takeoff and full bore climb,

1.8-2.2gph in cruise at 4500 rpm.



Bradley



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_________________
Beemer
KF2 (and now an M3!)
Suzuki G10 three-banger
Middle Georgia

torgemor(at)online.no
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: Fuel Flow, continued.Fuel Flow, continued.

Hi Bradly,

Just wanted to say this is a real good idea to implement into the old  

system, here you're forced to use one side by the time I.E. it is not  

possible to use both wing tank feeding the header, also there's only one  

valve to manage both fuel tanks - really good.



Can you see the potential danger of using both wing valves in open  

position in the old system??



You'll know, the good habit from the GA is to manage the fuel enroute,  

swap tank every 30 minute -this is an important part of good airmanship.



Well folks, this old system is something I'll like to look into a little  

later.

Torgeir.



On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 23:54:55 +0100, Bradley M Webb <bmwebb(at)cox.net> wrote:



[quote] 



 It's not that much different from many of yours, but much different than  

 the

 Model 2 instructions show.



 First of all, I have 6gal in the left, 12 gal in the right, and the small

 aluminum header right behind the firewall.



 I have no tank interconnect that vents both tanks together. The only  

 vents

 are the individual caps. I did this mainly to stop siphoning between the

 tanks while parked.



 I also have each tank flow to a left-off-right valve near the header  

 tank.

 The M2 manual shows the shut-offs behind the pilot (SB'd out), and both

 tanks went to the sides of the header tank. Mine has a single line from  

 the

 L-O-R valve to the flow sender then to the header. From there, to a  

 firewall

 shut-off valve, to the FI pump, then to the motor. From the FI/TBI,  

 excess

 fuel returns to the other side of the header.



 My header is a closed system, in that it is not vented at all under  

 normal

 conditions. I did not run the vent up to the wing tank. I have a purge  

 valve

 to the top to burp it, even in flight. I installed an ACS fuel level  

 switch

 with an LED in the panel. If that light comes on, my header level is

 falling, and I open the purge valve to burp it. Both vertical distance  

 and

 cap vent tube force the bubble out and re-fill the tank.



 While sitting tail down with half tanks, I get 4-5gph flow to the  

 header. In

 flight attitude, it's over 10gph. Since I only use 2 gph on my motor, it

 meets the FAA 150% flow rule by a large margin.



 Bradley



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Beemer

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
Location: Middle Georgia

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:27 am Post subject: Fuel Flow, continued.Fuel Flow, continued.

The different size tanks are the primary reason I wanted to select each tank

individually. I'm curious though if I used both together, what would happen

when one goes empty? Would it suck a bubble though? Or just sit there, while

the other tank with fuel in it fed the header? I didn't know, so I put the

L-O-R valve in.



If my tanks were the same size, I prolly would not have used the selector

valve (KISS principle).



I left the header up front (as opposed to the very popular behind the seat

header) because I could not figure out how to switch tanks with valves in

front of me (and not create a trapped air situation).  I did not want the

valves behind me (remember John Denver).



As it is, the only issue is water trapped in the lines below the seat.

That's why my header tank is my gascolator. The feed to the pump/motor uses

a standpipe of 1.5 inches off the bottom, so that if water does get in, it

settles to the bottom, where I'm not drawing fuel. Bad side is slightly

lower useable capacity. I added a drain at the back to the outside, so I can

check for water/debris on preflight.



I am debating replacing my right 13.5 gal with a 6 gallon tank. My butt

doesn't need 10hrs of range (20gal - 2gph), and I could get rid of the

selector valve altogether.  I'm kind of waiting for the plastic tanks to

emerge to solve the ethanol issue. I'm tossing around a single fuse tank in

back as well, but my rule is no fuel in the cabin.



Bradley



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_________________
Beemer
KF2 (and now an M3!)
Suzuki G10 three-banger
Middle Georgia

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