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bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:39 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

2/17/2007



Hello To "SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question"



At 11:31 AM 2/16/2007 -0700, you wrote:



"....skip....Oh, and Nav-Lights/Strobes for collision avoidance, but I don't 

plan to fly at nighttime.....skip....."



Please note what FAR Sec. 91.209 (b) says about operating anticollision 

lights in the daytime, as well as from sunset to sunrise, if the aircraft is 

equipped with an anticollision light system.



"91.209. Aircraft lights. No person may:



(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light system, 

unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the anticollision 

lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, 

because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to 

turn the lights off."



Operating continuously or normally in the daytime with anticollision lights 

off, if the aircraft is so equipped, regardless of operating conditions 

would probably not be considered "in the interest of safety" by the FAA.



OC -- The best investment we can make is to gather knowledge.

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:50 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

At 08:36 AM 2/17/2007 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



2/17/2007



Hello To "SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question"



At 11:31 AM 2/16/2007 -0700, you wrote:



"....skip....Oh, and Nav-Lights/Strobes for collision avoidance, but I 

don't plan to fly at nighttime.....skip....."



Please note what FAR Sec. 91.209 (b) says about operating anticollision 

lights in the daytime, as well as from sunset to sunrise, if the aircraft 

is equipped with an anticollision light system.



"91.209. Aircraft lights. No person may:



(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light 

system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the 

anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command 

determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the 

interest of safety to turn the lights off."



Operating continuously or normally in the daytime with anticollision 

lights off, if the aircraft is so equipped, regardless of operating 

conditions would probably not be considered "in the interest of safety" by 

the FAA.



OC -- The best investment we can make is to gather knowledge.


	


     To quote one of my heros, C.F. Kettering: "Knowledge is not

     understanding. You can know a lot and still understand

     nothing." The investment begins with $time$ necessary to

     gather knowledge but if we do not invest still more $time$

     (and perhaps seek explanation) to help us understand, then

     return on the original investment is at best meager and at

   worst wasted.



     Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------

        ( IF one aspires to be "world class",  )

        ( what ever you do must be exercised   )

        ( EVERY day . . .                      )

        (                  R. L. Nuckolls III  )

        ----------------------------------------

N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:17 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

At 07:36 AM 2/17/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

"91.209. Aircraft lights. No person may:



(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light 

system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the 

anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command 

determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the 

interest of safety to turn the lights off."



Operating continuously or normally in the daytime with anticollision 

lights off, if the aircraft is so equipped, regardless of operating 

conditions would probably not be considered "in the interest of 

safety" by the FAA.


	


How about this:



Mr. FAA judge, sir, as pilot-in-command, I determined it was not in 

the best interest of safety to operate my anticollision light system because



a) it draws 5A of power during taxi, when my generator is not putting 

out enough current to keep the battery from discharging, and

b) at taxi speeds it causes excessive noise in my radios while I am 

trying to listen for traffic in the pattern / copy clearances / whatever

c) I calculated that the 14,400 square inches of my aircraft glinting 

in the sunlight occupy more retinal space in the eyes of any 

potential observers than the 4 square inches of blinking light on my tail



Dave Morris

john(at)ballofshame.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:28 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

Best question of all is if you're setting up for VFR-Day only, why not 

just leave all the lights off entirely?  Save the weight, the power draw 

and the drag.  These lights are all but useless in the daytime, anyhow.



-John

www.ballofshame.com



Dave N6030X wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com>



 At 07:36 AM 2/17/2007, you wrote:

> 

> "91.209. Aircraft lights. No person may:

>

> (b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light 

> system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the 

> anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command 

> determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the 

> interest of safety to turn the lights off."

>

> Operating continuously or normally in the daytime with anticollision 

> lights off, if the aircraft is so equipped, regardless of operating 

> conditions would probably not be considered "in the interest of 

> safety" by the FAA.



 How about this:



 Mr. FAA judge, sir, as pilot-in-command, I determined it was not in 

 the best interest of safety to operate my anticollision light system 

 because



 a) it draws 5A of power during taxi, when my generator is not putting 

 out enough current to keep the battery from discharging, and

 b) at taxi speeds it causes excessive noise in my radios while I am 

 trying to listen for traffic in the pattern / copy clearances / whatever

 c) I calculated that the 14,400 square inches of my aircraft glinting 

 in the sunlight occupy more retinal space in the eyes of any potential 

 observers than the 4 square inches of blinking light on my tail



 Dave Morris

pilot4pay

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Louisville, KY

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:25 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

Dave, I don't think you could make a better argument than that. Well put.

Craig Smith

Do Not Archive 



 	  Quote: 	
		  "91.209. Aircraft lights. No person may:



(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light 

system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the 

anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command 

determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the 

interest of safety to turn the lights off."



Operating continuously or normally in the daytime with anticollision 

lights off, if the aircraft is so equipped, regardless of operating 

conditions would probably not be considered "in the interest of safety" 

by the FAA.


	


How about this:



Mr. FAA judge, sir, as pilot-in-command, I determined it was not in the best

interest of safety to operate my anticollision light system because



a) it draws 5A of power during taxi, when my generator is not putting out

enough current to keep the battery from discharging, and

b) at taxi speeds it causes excessive noise in my radios while I am trying

to listen for traffic in the pattern / copy clearances / whatever

c) I calculated that the 14,400 square inches of my aircraft glinting in the

sunlight occupy more retinal space in the eyes of any potential observers

than the 4 square inches of blinking light on my tail



Dave Morris

_________________
Craig Smith
CH640 builder
SN: 0078

"Just think how stupid the average person is,
and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
--George Carlin

klwerner(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:50 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

And to deviate BACK to the  original question which started this spinoff here: Does a SD-8 provide enough juice if  used as a standalone alternator? 

 Probably not, given the circumstances  of the particular setup and E-load mentioned earlier...

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

Bill Denton

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 97
Location: Chicago, IL USA

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:06 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

The intent of "the anticollision lights need not be lighted when the

pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would

be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off" was to avoid blinding

other pilots with bright strobe flashes.



You will notice that the regulations refer to turning them off when

conditions warrant, not to not turning them on at all. I recognize that

there might be conditions where a pilot might consider it inadvisable to

initially turn them on. But even the most stupid junior lawyer at the FAA

could nail you to the wall if you're operating all over the field without

the lights being on.



What you are going to run up against is a mentality that says "you don't

have to have them, but if you do have them, they better work and you had

better use them properly".



I would wonder if someone might not be jeopardizing your Airworthiness

Certificate if they operated in the manner suggested...





--

cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:45 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

Or, just disconnect the collision lights and put an 'inop' tag on the

switch.  The disconnect point would be easily reversed if night flying

is envisioned.  The point to the FAA is yes, a housing and bulb in on

the tail fin, but collision lights are not installed because they have

to have a source of power to be considered to be installed and they can

not be controlled and turned on by the pilot. 



But if they are hooked up and you can flip a switch to turn them on, and

you don't, that Perry Mason Jr. intern at the FAA will probably put a

notch in his briefs at your expense. Hopefully they have better things

to do then prosecute a case like that, but don't bet your license on it.

Besides, if the FAA has their way, there'll be a whole bunch on new fees

associated with getting your license back!!



Chuck Jensen

Do Not Archive 

--

klwerner(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

I am still amazed me how this thread  came into life? My original question that started it was to see  if my SD-8 would be an adequate alternator to supply enough energy to  a certain setup...

  

 But blink once and schwup-di-wup  we deviate into a whole different direction right  quick.  How did we get  from Electrics & Physics to FAA Rules & Lawyers so darn  quick???   

  

 Whatever will be mounted in the ship  will be used in accordance to Rules, Regs and/or Logic, ...so is my  SD-8 alternator adequate or not for the specific demands mentioned  earlier?

  

 I still don't know what the best  Primer is?  Any ideas anyone ???  

 [quote]   ---

klehman(at)albedo.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:06 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

My 3 favorite conspicuity items are:



Wig wag lights seem useful especially near airports.



A non white painted airplane.



A little $400. traffic alerter such as the one by Zaon is perhaps even 

more useful than strobes for some folks especially those that don't look 

outside much. More pilots leave their transponder on even in the circuit 

than I expected. Useless if the other guy doesn't have a transponder.



Ken



John Coloccia wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <john(at)ballofshame.com>



 Best question of all is if you're setting up for VFR-Day only, why not 

 just leave all the lights off entirely?  Save the weight, the power 

 draw and the drag.  These lights are all but useless in the daytime, 

 anyhow.



 -John

 www.ballofshame.com

Terry Watson

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:43 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

Just because you start a thread doesn’t mean it is going to just answer your question and not wander off. Just like any conversation, thoughts trigger other thoughts. Some will find it interesting, some won’t. Delete; don’t censor.  

   

Terry  

   

Do not archive  

   

         

  

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Konrad  L. Werner

 Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 10:03 AM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Daytime Anticollision Lights  

  

     

I am still amazed me how this thread came into life? My original question that started it was to see if my SD-8 would be an adequate alternator to supply enough energy to a certain setup...  

    

   

    

But blink once and schwup-di-wup we deviate into a whole different direction right quick.  How did we get from Electrics & Physics to FAA Rules & Lawyers so darn quick???     

    

   

    

Whatever will be mounted in the ship will be used in accordance to Rules, Regs and/or Logic, ...so is my SD-8 alternator adequate or not for the specific demands mentioned earlier?  

    

   

    

I still don't know what the best Primer is?  Any ideas anyone ???    

  [quote]    

---

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

At 11:03 AM 2/17/2007 -0700, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I am still amazed me how this thread came into life? My original question 

that started it was to see if my SD-8 would be an adequate alternator to 

supply enough energy to a certain setup...



But blink once and schwup-di-wup we deviate into a whole different 

direction right quick.  How did we get from Electrics & Physics to FAA 

Rules & Lawyers so darn quick???



Whatever will be mounted in the ship will be used in accordance to Rules, 

Regs and/or Logic, ...so is my SD-8 alternator adequate or not for the 

specific demands mentioned earlier?



I still don't know what the best Primer is?  Any ideas anyone ???


	


    It seems that someone along the way noted that the SD-8 is good

    for just over 8 amps when your engine is running at the red line.

    Beyond that, there's no more data that can be offered from the

    List because we don't know what your load analysis is for electro-

    whizzies in addition to exterior lights . . . and whether or not

    you're comfortable with charging around the pattern at 2700 RPM.



    I believe the simple answer is that the SD-8 is not adequate to

    the task for the way most of us load and use our systems, even

    in a day-vfr only environment.



    The SD-8 was the product that launched B&C Specialty Products

    about 27 years ago. I met Bill Bainbridge for the first time

    when he walked into Electo-Mech asking to buy the castings

    we used on our Bonanza stand-by generators. They mated with

    the AND20000, vacuum pump drive pad.



    That alternator IS flying on a whole raft of Longez and

    Variez aircraft as the sole source of engine driven energy

    for running electro-whizzies and charging a small battery.

    Few of these aircraft even had starters. For a time there

    was a belt driven cousin to the SD-8 that ran from the

    prop shaft . . . it WAS good for 12A or so.



    Over the years, the SD-8 has been best assigned duties

    as a second source of engine driven power for the purpose

    backing up a larger machine. The primary value of the

    SD-8 is to provide UNLIMITED endurance for an 8A e-bus

    load while holding 100% of battery's contained energy

    in reserve for approach to landing.



    Bob . . .

klwerner(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

Thank you Bob,

 Now there is an  answer that is of great use to me. My SD-8 when used as a backup  alternator will certainly prolong the demise of the battery for long  enough to make it down safely, should the main alternator ever fail on me.  Thank you  again for your input.  

 Konrad

  

 [quote]   ---

klwerner(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:02 pm Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

Dear Terry,

 Amazement does not equal  Censorship.  I don't think I  scolded or censored anybody for deviating from the original thread, but  I was sure amazed on how it got into FAA Regs instead...

 By the way, I did get the answer  to my electrical question from Bob N., but I also learned something new from the deviation into  FAA-Law here.

 So anyone please feel free to continue the discussion in any direction  desired, as I am open to learn some more...

  

  

 [quote]   ---

bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:44 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

2/17/2007



Hello Bill Denton, Thanks for your input.



1) You wrote: "The intent of "the anticollision lights need not be lighted 

when the

pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would

be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off" was to avoid blinding

other pilots with bright strobe flashes."



This may be true on the ground, but the bigger issue was a pilot suffering 

vertigo while airborne in the clouds by having his anticollision light 

flashing and reflected light coming into the cockpit.



2) You wrote: "But even the most stupid junior lawyer at the FAA

could nail you to the wall if you're operating all over the field without

the lights being on."



I don't think the FAA sees the anticollision light as essential for ground 

use. I think that there are some airlines that as SOP have pilots turn on 

the anti collision light as they are cleared to take the runway for take 

off. All other times it is considered courteous to have them off when on the 

ground.



OC -- The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand 

knowledge. (Is that better Bob Nuckolls?)



Time: 09:06:40 AM PST US

From: "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com>

Subject: RE: Daytime Anticollision Lights

The intent of "the anticollision lights need not be lighted when the

pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would

be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off" was to avoid blinding

other pilots with bright strobe flashes.



You will notice that the regulations refer to turning them off when

conditions warrant, not to not turning them on at all. I recognize that

there might be conditions where a pilot might consider it inadvisable to

initially turn them on. But even the most stupid junior lawyer at the FAA

could nail you to the wall if you're operating all over the field without

the lights being on.



What you are going to run up against is a mentality that says "you don't

have to have them, but if you do have them, they better work and you had

better use them properly".



I would wonder if someone might not be jeopardizing your Airworthiness

Certificate if they operated in the manner suggested...

bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

2/18/2004



Hello Konrad, Thanks for your input. I apologize for not previously 

addressing you by name, but your name was not included in the posting that I 

read that was provided through Bob Nuckolls.



1) You wrote: "....skip....Oh, and Nav-Lights/Strobes for collision 

avoidance, but I don't

plan to fly at nighttime.....skip....."



And I wrote: "Please note what FAR Sec. 91.209 (b) says about operating 

anticollision

lights in the daytime, as well as from sunset to sunrise, if the aircraft is 

equipped with an anticollision light system."



I wrote that because I was concerned that some reader, not necessarily you, 

might conclude that the sole considerations he would have about installing, 

or not, and operating anticollision lights was electrical load and whether 

he was operating between sunset and sunrise. I did not want to let that 

erroneous conclusion stand without some clarification.



2) You wrote: "But blink once and schwup-di-wup we deviate into a whole 

different

direction right quick.  How did we get from Electrics & Physics to FAA

Rules & Lawyers so darn quick???"



We got there because fairly early on in my homebuilding experience I learned 

that we builders, including myself, were so focused on building that the 

rules pertaining to our configuring, building, registering, certifying, and 

operating our aircraft were way in the back of our minds. Some times that 

condition rose up to bite us and we said: "If only I had known that 

earlier".



I also learned that the FAA and EAA had some knowledge of how things could 

and should work in the homebuilding community that was not readily apparent 

by just reading the FAR's. So as I got bruised and educated in this arena I 

made it my goal to share what I have learned with other builders and pilots. 

There are still enough gray areas so that no one, including me, has all the 

definitive answers, but I'd still like to share what I have learned --  

hopefully for the benefit of others.



OC -- The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand 

knowledge (then share it).



Time: 10:04:46 AM PST US

From: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner(at)comcast.net>

Subject: Re: Daytime Anticollision Lights



I am still amazed me how this thread came into life? My original

question that started it was to see if my SD-8 would be an adequate

alternator to supply enough energy to a certain setup...



But blink once and schwup-di-wup we deviate into a whole different

direction right quick.  How did we get from Electrics & Physics to FAA

Rules & Lawyers so darn quick???



Whatever will be mounted in the ship will be used in accordance to

Rules, Regs and/or Logic, ...so is my SD-8 alternator adequate or not

for the specific demands mentioned earlier?



I still don't know what the best Primer is?  Any ideas anyone ???

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:28 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

Good Morning OC,   

 May I add a little comment from one who has spent a lot of wasted time  taxiing around airports?

  

 The gripe by folks on the ground  mainly concern strobe lights.  When they first came on the scene, if you turned one on while still on the  ground, somebody was sure to ask that it be turned off. The Powers That Be had  some testing done and we were all informed that the flash was of such short  duration that there was no way it could affect our night vision. Nevertheless,  the complaints continued and still do to this day.

  

 However, most of us really liked having rotating beacons lit while  taxiing.  If you have ever sat in a cockpit twenty feet above the surface,  you have realized that it is very difficult to spot a small airplane that has  only position lights for conspicuity.

  

 The standard, new then, but now old fashioned, rotating Grimes Beacon  worked very well, but the ones I liked the best were the ones mounted on the  belly. That light never could shine into anyone's eye, yet it lit up a broad  space on the ground.  While I came very close to taxiing over small  aircraft several times, I never missed seeing one that had a belly beacon  lit.

  

 As an aside, it is my opinion that the most conspicuous light of all is the  Grimes oscillating beacon mounted on the belly!

  

 On my personal airplanes, I have always installed a belly beacon.  If  I was flying an airplane not so equipped, I would use the one on top. If the  airplane has only strobes, I would very carefully watch for other airplanes and  turn on the strobe when one got within a hundred feet of me. If that elicited a  snide remark about "getting that idiot to turn off his strobe", so be it!

  

 The accident where a US Air flight landed on a commuter holding in position  would probably not have occurred if the commuter had been equipped with a beacon  either in addition to or instead of the strobe.

  

 If I Recall Correctly, it was company policy for the commuter to not turn  on the strobe until takeoff clearance had been received. Since they had no  beacon, the only conspicuity lighting that was available for the US Air pilots  to see was that little white tail light.

  

 I want a rotating (or oscillating!) beacon on my airplane. With or without  strobes.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630  985-8503



  

 In a message dated 2/18/2007 7:46:12 A.M. Central Standard Time,  bakerocb(at)cox.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    AeroElectric-List message posted by:    <bakerocb(at)cox.net>



2/17/2007



Hello Bill Denton, Thanks for    your input.



1) You wrote: "The intent of "the anti collision lights    need not be lighted 

when the

pilot-in-command determines that, because    of operating conditions, it would

be in the interest of safety to turn the    lights off" was to avoid blinding

other pilots with bright strobe    flashes."



This may be true on the ground, but the bigger issue was a    pilot suffering 

vertigo while airborne in the clouds by having his anti    collision light 

flashing and reflected light coming into the    cockpit.



2) You wrote: "But even the most stupid junior lawyer at the    FAA

could nail you to the wall if you're operating all over the field    without

the lights being on."



I don't think the FAA sees the anti    collision light as essential for ground 

use. I think that there are some    airlines that as SOP have pilots turn on 

the anti collision light as they    are cleared to take the runway for take 

off. All other times it is    considered courteous to have them off when on the 

ground.



OC -- The    best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand    

knowledge. (Is that better Bob Nuckolls?)



	


 



  [quote][b]

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:26 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

At 08:40 AM 2/18/2007 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



2/17/2007



Hello Bill Denton, Thanks for your input.



1) You wrote: "The intent of "the anticollision lights need not be lighted 

when the

pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would

be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off" was to avoid blinding

other pilots with bright strobe flashes."



This may be true on the ground, but the bigger issue was a pilot suffering 

vertigo while airborne in the clouds by having his anticollision light 

flashing and reflected light coming into the cockpit.



2) You wrote: "But even the most stupid junior lawyer at the FAA

could nail you to the wall if you're operating all over the field without

the lights being on."



I don't think the FAA sees the anticollision light as essential for ground 

use. I think that there are some airlines that as SOP have pilots turn on 

the anti collision light as they are cleared to take the runway for take 

off. All other times it is considered courteous to have them off when on 

the ground.


	


     I recall my first trip to the airplane with the

     flight instructor wherein he suggested that it

     was a good thing to turn on the flashing beacon

     just before starting the engine as a notice to

     others that you were about to become a potential

     hazard . . .



     In the past few days, we've had two small children

     killed under the wheels of cars here in Wichita.

     One small fellow had pulled away from his grandfathers

     grip to catch up with his brother who had crossed

     the lane to a drive-up window ahead of him. The car had

     stopped for the mother and other brother. The car

     was moving forward again when the second child decided

     to make his move.



     These incidents have sparked a lot of discussion

     in the media among folks who decry how "unsafe

     our society has become for children". No doubt

     the promulgators of hazard will become vulnerable

     to legal attacks of one kind or another.



     I recall from my childhood the loss of several

     children in my school due to various accidents.

     While our little town grieved over the loss

     of these individuals, I don't remember any call

     for new initiatives with a goal of reducing risks

     of similar events in the future. But like dozens of

     discussions in various venues at the FAA about

     lighting this, flashing that and prescribing sanctions

     against scofflaws, our town will be blessed with

     the opinions of many who will offer their own

     calls for "changes in society's behavior to

     prevent this from ever happening again".



     Years after these meetings took place, new

     initiatives erected and sanctions prescribed,

     the reasons offered by teachers for their

     existence will be as varied (and perhaps even

     conflicting) as the variety of rationales offered

     for the use or non-use of lighting on our airplanes.

     Long after the reasons that were offered when

     the rules were crafted are forgotten, the rules

     will still exist, propagandists will still be rationalizing

     them in a variety of ways. I use the word propagandist

     as opposed to teacher because most are simply

     parroting what they've heard or interpreted on their

     own without benefit of knowing the thinking of

     those who crafted the rules years ago and in

     places far away.



     The simple ideas behind exterior lighting are profound.

     Lights help you see. Lights help people see you.

     ANYTHING one does to make their airplane stand out

     from the environs has the obvious value of reducing

     risk. By how much? Nobody will ever know by virtue

     of a double-blind, scientific study of numbers

     derived from repeatable experiments.



     Nonetheless, fellow pilots, regulators and even your next

     door neighbor will have an opinion bolstered by

     some anecdote describing how two airplanes came

     together . . . or some kid met an untimely end

     in the McDonalds drive-thru. If running lights

     has some non-zero value for reducing risk, nobody

     is likely to sanction you for having lights.

     However, they might well decide to make an example of

     you for  not having shown a light.



     The ultimate responsibility for doing a good thing

     about lighting an airplane rests with us and

     not upon those who run around with rule books under

     their arms trying to justify next year's raise.

     Being good citizens in the air and on the ground

     should be driven by something other than

     (1) dependance upon anecdotal interpretation of

     rules (2) or done just to avoid sanctions for having

     broken the rules.



     The best thing we can do here on the List is figure

     out ways to "make it happen" and perhaps concentrate

     less on whether or not it should happen and why.



 	  Quote: 	
		  OC -- The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and 

understand knowledge. (Is that better Bob Nuckolls?)


	


      Makes sense to me my friend!



      Bob . . .

vaughnray(at)bvunet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

Long before manufacturers were required to wire cars and motorcycles to run 

with their headlights on, I always turned the headlights on my motorcycle 

on, even though the bike that I had at the time could barely keep up with 

running the lights and charging the battery at the same time



However, I did not feel that this made me safe. In many it helped, but I 

recall one instance in which my back-up plan (assuming that no one saw me) 

is probably responsible for the fact that I still have a right leg. As a big 

car rushed up to the stop sign on my right, I was watching for the flicker 

of recognition in his eyes. Seeing none, I started to swerve left. Sure 

enough, after a rolling stop, he proceeded to pull across the street. The 

early beginning of my swerve and the act of raising my leg above the 

handlebars saved my leg. He didn't touch me, but I still remember my leg 

passing over his hood and the hair standing up on the back of my neck.



So how does this relate? Why not use every aid available to enhance your 

safety and also stay alert and aware of your surroundings. The cockpit is no 

place for complacency and daydeaming, nor is the seat of a motorcycle.



Vaughn Teegarden

66 years old and looking forward to many more years of safe flying and 

riding

pilot4pay

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Louisville, KY

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:36 am Post subject: Daytime Anticollision Lights

I have always wondered why my instructor always demanded that I turn off my

strobes while on the ground. I thought the purpose of the strobes was to

make my aircraft unmistakable. I have never been so disturbed by the

flashing of strobes of other aircraft, that I could not fulfill my duties as

pilot in command of my aircraft. Other than having read that this is somehow

"airport etiquette" in a Cessna PPL course book, and parroted by many

instructors, I simply don't understand it's real compliment to safety.

I would rather be a standout on the taxi-way, than have my aircraft blend

into the cacophony of lights on the field and have another aircraft or

vehicle taxi into/land on top of me. If the lights bother someone, I suggest

you not stare directly into the strobe. I'm sure that some will say that I

should not worry about other aircraft, I should know if they are coming in

to land, but more than once I've had aircraft swoop in to the runway without

self announcement on the CTAF, or for that matter flying a proper pattern.

When my aircraft is in motion or taxiing anywhere other than the hangar

area, I'm going to use all of the lighting available, to ensure I'm seen.

Sorry to have bothered you.

I'm sure the flames will start, and the name calling will follow, but I'd

rather be an a*****e than an accident statistic.

Craig Smith

_________________
Craig Smith
CH640 builder
SN: 0078

"Just think how stupid the average person is,
and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
--George Carlin

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