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aileron trim system

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rstone4(at)hot.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:57 am Post subject: aileron trim system

Members

      Can any of you who have built the ZodiacXL with aileron trim tell me how  long in hours it took you to install the trim system complete ready for  use.  

 Tracy Stone

 ZodiacXL



   [quote][b]

Michael Valentine

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 108

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:53 am Post subject: aileron trim system

I don' t know if you mean a retrofit on an already finished plane - but building it as part of the kit (after aileron perviously finished), definitely took less than 10 hours.  Probably less than 5.  (I had nylon conduit to run the wire through so I had nothing to do inside the wing.) 



Michael in NH



do not archive



On 2/28/07, robert stone <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com (rstone4(at)hot.rr.com)> wrote:[quote]        Members

      Can any of you who have built the ZodiacXL with aileron trim tell me how  long in hours it took you to install the trim system complete ready for  use.  

 Tracy Stone

 ZodiacXL



   [quote][b]  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com  [quote][b]

ccwacker(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: aileron trim system

About 5 hours.



Chuck Wacker

N601CW Quick Build

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com>

Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

To: <zenith-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: aileron trim system

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:56:55 -0600



Members

      Can any of you who have built the ZodiacXL with aileron trim tell me 

how long in hours it took you to install the trim system complete ready for 

use.



Tracy Stone

ZodiacXL


	


_________________________________________________________________

Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. 

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https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f6&disc=y&vers=743&s=4056&p=5117

rstone4(at)hot.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:53 pm Post subject: aileron trim system

Hi Chuck,

     Thanks much for the response.  Thats just about what I had it figured 

at.



Tracy

---

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: aileron trim system

If I remember correctly about an afternoon. This was on an aileron that was not mounted to the plane and the wing had not yet been built.



[quote="rstone4(at)hot.rr.com"]Members

      Can any of you who have built the ZodiacXL with aileron trim tell me how  long in hours it took you to install the trim system complete ready for  use.  

 Tracy Stone

 ZodiacXL



    	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

rstone4(at)hot.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject: aileron trim system

He Michael,

      Thanks much for the  responce.  I had it figured at just about 5 hours also.  Chuck Wacker  also responded and his estimate was 5 hours so I think that must be just about  right.  It's on an aircraft currently under construction.

  

 Tracy

 [quote]   ---

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:27 pm Post subject: aileron trim system

remember when connecting the trims that they move opposite to the direction you need to go, they are designed to move the main aileron  and elevator up and down. so down trim pushes aileron up, for left turn. etc...



Juan



--

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:38 pm Post subject: aileron trim system

Isn't the position of the large control surfaces actually unchanged by the

trim (dictated by the control cables or tubes). I thought the trim tabs just

deflect small amounts of air on their own.



-- Craig

klaus(at)utdallas.edu
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:06 pm Post subject: aileron trim system

Hi Charles,



You may want to take a look of an alternate, much simpler, trim tab 

installation

that does not involve any electric motor and requires no trim tab on the 

aileron.

Just go to



http://www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/aileron_trim.html



for details.



Best wishes,



Klaus Truemper



-- 

Klaus Truemper

Professor Emeritus of Computer Science

University of Texas at Dallas

Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and

  Computer Science EC31

P.O. Box 830688

Richardson, TX 75083-0688

(972) 883-2712

klaus(at)utdallas.edu

www.utdallas.edu/~klaus

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: aileron trim system

Craig,

The trim actually exerts a force that will move the aileron slightly.  When the trim tab deflects up, the effect is to push the trailing edge of the aileron down.   Very tiny deflections of the aileron are all that are needed in most cases.



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: aileron trim system

nope, i thought the same thing till I want a flyin in a 601.    PLane was at 2000 ft agl.  with two dudes in it, it was turing slightly to the left so I hit the right trim button.  Looking left expecting to see the trim tab pointing down I was surprised to see it up!   SO looking at it I I pressed the left button, pushing the trim down and wow, the plane turned left!.  same ion the tail.  The difference between 601 and the GA piper we are used to is the trim when deflected pushes the entire surface of the control that it is attached to in the opposite direction.  SO when you want to trim to go right the trim come up, pushing the aileron down, raising the wing. Trim pushes down, then you get up deflection turning the plane.    On a Cub, the crank for trim lowers the leading edge of the deflecting air up, thus up trim.   The trims on the 601 and 701 Move the control surface.



After that, went home and swapped the neccessary wires to correct mine.



Juan



--

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:48 am Post subject: aileron trim system

.exactly. The Cub is just like virtually every jetliner out there...and the function is exactly the same as teh 601: the lift vector of teh flying surface is modified to generate thrust in the direction needed. In one case the main flying surface incidence is changed so that the new "trail" position of the attached control surface is changed (Cub/jetliner) and on the other the tab flies the control surface to a deflection that changes the mean chord line in the entire flying surface (has the effect of making a upward or downward lifting airfoil instead of a neutral, symmetrical airfoil). Same effect.



Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> wrote:  [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega 



nope, i thought the same thing till I want a flyin in a 601. PLane was at 2000 ft agl. with two dudes in it, it was  turing slightly to the left so I hit the right trim button. Looking left expecting to see the trim tab pointing down I was surprised to see it up! SO looking at it I I pressed the left button, pushing the trim down and wow, the plane turned left!. same ion the tail. The difference between 601 and the GA piper we are used to is the trim when deflected pushes the entire surface of the control that it is attached to in the opposite direction. SO when you want to trim to go right the trim come up, pushing the aileron down, raising the wing. Trim pushes down, then you get up deflection turning the plane. On a Cub, the crank for trim lowers the leading edge of the deflecting air up, thus up trim. The trims on the 601 and 701 Move the control surface.



After that, went home and swapped the neccessary wires to correct mine.



Juan



--

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: aileron trim system

Dave,



Yeah thats it............i think.



Juan



--

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: aileron trim system

 	  craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote: 	
		  Isn't the position of the large control surfaces actually unchanged by the

trim (dictated by the control cables or tubes). I thought the trim tabs just

deflect small amounts of air on their own.



-- Craig 	




The trim tab deflects air, causing a counter force at the hinge point of the trim tab in the opposite direction of the trim tab which pushes the control surface, which acts on the air and causes the plane to trim differently.

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: aileron trim system

 	  amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: 	
		  nope, i thought the same thing till I want a flyin in a 601.    PLane was at 2000 ft agl.  with two dudes in it, it was turing slightly to the left so I hit the right trim button.  Looking left expecting to see the trim tab pointing down I was surprised to see it up!   SO looking at it I I pressed the left button, pushing the trim down and wow, the plane turned left!.  same ion the tail.  The difference between 601 and the GA piper we are used to is the trim when deflected pushes the entire surface of the control that it is attached to in the opposite direction.  SO when you want to trim to go right the trim come up, pushing the aileron down, raising the wing. Trim pushes down, then you get up deflection turning the plane.    On a Cub, the crank for trim lowers the leading edge of the deflecting air up, thus up trim.   The trims on the 601 and 701 Move the control surface.



After that, went home and swapped the neccessary wires to correct mine.



Juan



-- 	




From what I remember of the Cessna 152, they moved the control surface too. The 152 only had an elevator trim. You saying there's some planes that have a trim connected to the wing and not the control surface?

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: aileron trim system

I know that on Mooneys, the pitch trim tilts the  the whole tail  

assembly. Some trim systems use springs that directly pull the  

control surface up or down. I don't know of any that change the pitch  

of the whole wing.

On Mar 2, 2007, at 5:03 PM, ashontz wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:

> nope, i thought the same thing till I want a flyin in a 601.     

> PLane was at 2000 ft agl.  with two dudes in it, it was turing  

> slightly to the left so I hit the right trim button.  Looking left  

> expecting to see the trim tab pointing down I was surprised to see  

> it up!   SO looking at it I I pressed the left button, pushing the  

> trim down and wow, the plane turned left!.  same ion the tail.   

> The difference between 601 and the GA piper we are used to is the  

> trim when deflected pushes the entire surface of the control that  

> it is attached to in the opposite direction.  SO when you want to  

> trim to go right the trim come up, pushing the aileron down,  

> raising the wing. Trim pushes down, then you get up deflection  

> turning the plane.    On a Cub, the crank for trim lowers the  

> leading edge of the deflecting air up, thus up trim.   The trims  

> on the 601 and 701 Move the control surface.

>

> After that, went home and swapped the neccessary wires to correct  

> mine.

>

> Juan

>

> --

> From what I remember of the Cessna 152, they moved the control  

> surface too. The 152 only had an elevator trim. You saying there's  

> some planes that have a trim connected to the wing and not the  

> control surface?



 --------

 CH601XL - Corvair

 www.mykitlog.com/ashontz




	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: aileron trim system

 	  bryanmmartin wrote: 	
		  I know that on Mooneys, the pitch trim tilts the  the whole tail  

assembly. Some trim systems use springs that directly pull the  

control surface up or down. I don't know of any that change the pitch  

of the whole wing.

On Mar 2, 2007, at 5:03 PM, ashontz wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:

> nope, i thought the same thing till I want a flyin in a 601.     

> PLane was at 2000 ft agl.  with two dudes in it, it was turing  

> slightly to the left so I hit the right trim button.  Looking left  

> expecting to see the trim tab pointing down I was surprised to see  

> it up!   SO looking at it I I pressed the left button, pushing the  

> trim down and wow, the plane turned left!.  same ion the tail.   

> The difference between 601 and the GA piper we are used to is the  

> trim when deflected pushes the entire surface of the control that  

> it is attached to in the opposite direction.  SO when you want to  

> trim to go right the trim come up, pushing the aileron down,  

> raising the wing. Trim pushes down, then you get up deflection  

> turning the plane.    On a Cub, the crank for trim lowers the  

> leading edge of the deflecting air up, thus up trim.   The trims  

> on the 601 and 701 Move the control surface.

>

> After that, went home and swapped the neccessary wires to correct  

> mine.

>

> Juan

>

> --

> From what I remember of the Cessna 152, they moved the control  

> surface too. The 152 only had an elevator trim. You saying there's  

> some planes that have a trim connected to the wing and not the  

> control surface?



 --------

 CH601XL - Corvair

 www.mykitlog.com/ashontz

	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive. 	




No, not the pitch of the whole wing. I just thought you were refering to a trim tab that was just like a regular small aileron on the wing. That's the way it sounded the way you described it. Never heard of heard of anything like that.

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