 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.
Guest
|
 Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: So let's just sue everybody |
 |
|
Ditto on "kill all the lawyers"
Couple things.
1. You can't cure stupidity.
2. I have a friend who loaned me an accident evaluation of the Cirrus
crash. He was killed by physics... not aileron failure. It came down
to turn radius and speed. The corridor that he was attempting to turn
in was very narrow. If I remember correctly, only about a mile wide.
He was also turning downwind which lengthened his ground track turn
radius. When they calculated the amount of airspace that it took to
execute a 180 degree turn it exceeded the real estate that he had. So,
he was killed by physics. There is a good explanation of speed vs turn
radius in "Stick and Rudder." Only there they are talking about why one
crashes into the ground while strafing the girlfriends house.
Basically, at high speed it takes four times the radius to turn.
One of the recommendations was that if you find yourself in this sort of
situation: _slow down._
Pull the throttle and drop the flaps if you can. After I read the write
up on the accident, I went out and tried it in my 152. A coordinated
turn with full flaps can be surprisingly tight. Tuck that information
away the next time you find yourself in a canyon with limited airspace.
Dr. Fred
40515
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:42 am Post subject: So let's just sue everybody |
|
|
Yup. I saw a little write-up that outlined the corridor width, speed of
the aircraft, and required bank angle to make a 180 safely, and it was
so steep that you might as well do a hammerhead instead - both maneuvers
would probably be considered "aerobatics", and the cirrus would look
much nicer after the hammerhead...
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
--
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:26 am Post subject: So let's just sue everybody |
|
|
Throw wind shear into the equation and a venturi effect from the surrounding
buildings, and it could be more bumpy than "Mr.Toads Wild Ride"
John G. 409
[quote]From: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston(at)popsound.com>
Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RE: So let's just sue everybody
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 09:42:27 -0800
Yup. I saw a little write-up that outlined the corridor width, speed of
the aircraft, and required bank angle to make a 180 safely, and it was
so steep that you might as well do a hammerhead instead - both maneuvers
would probably be considered "aerobatics", and the cirrus would look
much nicer after the hammerhead...
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
--
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wvu(at)ameritel.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: So let's just sue everybody |
|
|
I guess the key is "if you find yourself in this sort of situation:".
Without knowing how big the playing field is to begin with, plus they may
not have known what the supposed turning radius was at that speed (I don't
know what it is for our -10s), add another full second before you start to
react, plus the pucker factor and it becomes more believable something like
this could happen to anyone. I've lost friends who were extra-gifted in the
business of flying. It makes you think bit and try to stay on the
conservative side.
Another maneuver I was taught, which I don't remember if it has a name
(perhaps Joe Zac can help me out), that's used by the heavies to make a
quick 180 when you're surprised by a mountain side ahead: bank 30deg to the
appropriate side, pull and maintain 3 G's, when you have bled off most of
your airspeed you should be pointing in the opposite direction, level the
wings. I don't think throttle setting is a factor. The idea is similar to
that described in the 152 below but you also slant the turning plane to
reduce the effective bird-eye view of the turning radius.
Anh
N591VU
---
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:53 am Post subject: So let's just sue everybody |
|
|
I would say that knowing the physics is one thing, and being proficient
in recognition and avoidance is a second. How many of us have flown
ground reference maneuvers both low and close to something? Turning
into a hillside or block of buildings is a bit off-putting until you do
it a few times. But it doesn't take much for your brain to easily
judge airspeed, wind, distance, etc, once it has some experience.
Having lived there and flown the Hudson river portion of the VFR
corridor a few times, the whole environment is a giant distraction.
Again, experience will allow the distractions to fade into the
background while the pilot can begin to deal with what's important.
Interestingly, a right turn would have turned the Cirrus into the wind
and into friendlier territory - except that it would have been an
airspace violation. Seems like a good deal in retrospect.
Anyway, Anh, I think it's called a chandelle, a maneuver you learn for
your commercial ticket. It takes some practice to get it to work. Any
of you western guys ever practice it in a box canyon? Turning into the
wall?
Thanks for the another flying '10 Anh!
Bill "back from vacation and attaching the feathers to the tailcone" Watson
DejaVu wrote:
[quote]
I guess the key is "if you find yourself in this sort of situation:".
Without knowing how big the playing field is to begin with, plus they
may not have known what the supposed turning radius was at that speed
(I don't know what it is for our -10s), add another full second before
you start to react, plus the pucker factor and it becomes more
believable something like this could happen to anyone. I've lost
friends who were extra-gifted in the business of flying. It makes you
think bit and try to stay on the conservative side.
Another maneuver I was taught, which I don't remember if it has a name
(perhaps Joe Zac can help me out), that's used by the heavies to make
a quick 180 when you're surprised by a mountain side ahead: bank 30deg
to the appropriate side, pull and maintain 3 G's, when you have bled
off most of your airspeed you should be pointing in the opposite
direction, level the wings. I don't think throttle setting is a
factor. The idea is similar to that described in the 152 below but
you also slant the turning plane to reduce the effective bird-eye view
of the turning radius.
Anh
N591VU
---
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
