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tommylutz(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:06 am Post subject: Newbie building CH701 - Corrosion / Gotchas |
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Hi everyone. I'll start by introducing myself. I'm Tom, from Northern New Jersey. I'm a private pilot with 100 hours experience and a glider pilot with 50 or so hours experience. I've never built even a model airplane before, but consider myself handy.
I just ordered a rudder starter kit along with some tools from Zenithair for the CH701, and I can't wait to start building so I can determine if it's within my capabilities to build the entire thing.
As a complete beginner to aircraft construction, I have several questions that I'm sure many of you have the answers to.
CORROSION PROTECTION:
1) I've learned that zinc-chromate is a carcinogen, and other people have successfully used zinc oxide. How do you treat the aluminum pieces for corrosion protection and what do YOU use? Who is your supplier?
2) Should ALL the surfaces be coated if seaplane operations may be in the foreseeable future? What additional protection needs to be performed on the rudder kit if this may be an option?
3) Do you have to scrub off any oxidation before protection? What do you use to clean off the aluminum (I read somewhere that scotch-brite is bad)?
PAINT:
1) Engine first, then paint? What kind of paint, and how does one apply it? Will I need to take this to a professional or can I spray it myself?
COST OF OWNERSHIP:
1) Since I do not have a high number of hours under my belt, I expect insurance companies will not want to insure me at a reasonable rate. Anyone have experience with this?
2) Maintenance - What scheduled maintenance must be performed, and how much does it cost to overhaul a Rotax 912(S)?
GOTCHAS
1) What kind of "gotcha's" can I expect when building the CH701? They say hindsight is 20/20....can I borrow your collective hindsights?
Thanks in advance!
Tom L.
[quote][b]
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John Bolding
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: Newbie building CH701 - Corrosion / Gotchas |
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Tom,
There have been MANY posts on corrosion protection in just the past few months. Please check the archives. It's not a 3 sentence explanation.
If you have any questions on how to provide the best protection for a seaplane (I'm building a 701 on amphibs that will be used in seawater) give me a note offlist. LOW&SLOW John ( jnbolding1"at" teleshare"dot" net)
[quote] ---
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dougsnash(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:45 am Post subject: Newbie building CH701 - Corrosion / Gotchas |
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First, welcome to the world of Zenith Aircraft. I am
currently entering the "Systems" stage of building the
fuselage of my CH-701. That means (to me)engine,
controls, electrical, etc.
One great resource you might consider is Jon Croke's
homebuilthelp.com DVD series. He is building his
third CH-701 and has several how too DVDs specifically
related to the assembly and manufacture of these neat
little planes.
As for Gotchas that I have found with mine (I'm
scratch building). I found the skinning of the
elevator to be a bit of a challenge. There is a whole
chapter in the assembly manual on finding the center
of the elevator rib. Problem is they refer to is in a
different way later on in the manual when it comes
time to skin the elevator. I forget the exact terms
but that were used but they mean the same. Use the
same point.
Another great tip I found is when handling the thin
016 skins for the elevator and stab, it works well to
duct tape four or so 1"X3/4" strips of wood the length
of the skin. It adds significant rigidity to the
metal and helps reduce the "smiley" tendency (smileys
are not good in this case). Then when you pull on the
straps to tighten the skin, the forces spread more
evenly and the finished project looks much better.
While it mentions using boards to spread the load in
the manual, I found that by attaching the strips as
soon as you start to work with the skins, they are
much easier to handle.
Hope this information helps with your building. I've
been at it almost a year now. If I'd gone with the
kit I'd likely be flying by now but I would have
missed out on some great experiences.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
do not archive
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
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planejim(at)bellsouth.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:05 pm Post subject: Newbie building CH701 - Corrosion / Gotchas |
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Tom,
Welcome to the world of Zenith Builders. I built a 601HD ( flying over 10 years and 540 hours ) and am helping a friend with 701 ( on gear, wings on, starting engine installation ). I'd be glad to share some builders info and a few precautions with you. Please contact me off site at planejim(at)bellsouth.net (planejim(at)bellsouth.net) and I'll email you the info without boring everyone else.
do not archive
Jim Hoak
[quote] ---
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n801bh(at)netzero.com
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:36 pm Post subject: Newbie building CH701 - Corrosion / Gotchas |
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I will add my 2 cents worth. If the directions say to use four ratchet straps to chinch up the skins you should double that. Four more straps are far cheaper then a new skin or the time to do the process over. That spreads to load over a smaller area per strap and helps to get a better finished product. YMMV
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
First, welcome to the world of Zenith Aircraft. I am
currently entering the "Systems" stage of building the
fuselage of my CH-701. That means (to me)engine,
controls, electrical, etc.
One great resource you might consider is Jon Croke's
homebuilthelp.com DVD series. He is building his
third CH-701 and has several how too DVDs specifically
related to the assembly and manufacture of these neat
little planes.
As for Gotchas that I have found with mine (I'm
scratch building). I found the skinning of the
elevator to be a bit of a challenge. There is a whole
chapter in the assembly manual on finding the center
of the elevator rib. Problem is they refer to is in a
different way later on in the manual when it comes
time to skin the elevator. I forget the exact terms
but that were used but they mean the same. Use the
same point.
Another great tip I found is when handling the thin
016 skins for the elevator and stab, it works well to
duct tape four or so 1"X3/4" strips of wood the length
of the skin. It adds significant rigidity to the
metal and helps reduce the "smiley" tendency (smileys
are not good in this case). Then when you pull on the
straps to tighten the skin, the forces spread more
evenly and the finished project looks much better.
While it mentions using boards to spread the load in
the manual, I found that by attaching the strips as
soon as you start to work with the skins, they are
much easier to handle.
Hope this information helps with your building. I've
been at it almost a year now. If I'd gone with the
kit I'd likely be flying by now but I would have
missed out on some great experiences.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
do not archive
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo!================================================sp; - The Zenith-List Email Forum&n utilities such as the Subscriptions page,================================================ - NEW MATRONICS WEB FO====================================================== [quote][b]
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RURUNY(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: Newbie building CH701 - Corrosion / Gotchas |
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I'll try to answer each of your questions
CORROSION PROTECTION:
1) I've learned that zinc-chromate is a carcinogen, and other people
have successfully used zinc oxide. How do you treat the aluminum pieces
for corrosion protection and what do YOU use? Who is your supplier?
You have to be careful using both. I used Tempo zinc chromate primer spray cans purchased at West Marine. They have an online store westmarine.com. They also have it in a can which I thinned out and
brushed on the skin interiors. For prepping aluminum, I cleaned it in soap and water with 7557 brown
scotchbrite and gave it a bath in alodine mixed with a little water for a minute or less , let dry then prime.
You can get a gallon of alodine from Aircraft Spruce. Prep for the skins was just clean with soap and water
then prime(interior only). On the outside of the skins I gave a quick spray with ZC on the rivet lines, so the
rivet sat on the primer.
2) Should ALL the surfaces be coated if seaplane operations may be in
the foreseeable future? What additional protection needs to be
performed on the rudder kit if this may be an option?
I live on the east end of Long Island, NY surrounded on three sides by salt water, all this with the intention
of putting the plane on floats one day with some saltwater operations. What I am doing might be overkill
for your situation. I built my rudder at the factory and left the interior as is.
3) Do you have to scrub off any oxidation before protection? What do
you use to clean off the aluminum (I read somewhere that scotch-brite is
bad)?
Some scotchbrites are bad, I used 7557 brown, I couldn't tell you if its bad but it works great.
PAINT:
1) Engine first, then paint? What kind of paint, and how does one
apply it? Will I need to take this to a professional or can I spray it
myself?
I have installed my engine without painting the airframe, but I did use a ceramic engine paint in cans
to do the firewall and engine mount.
I have a friend with a brother who does painting. He has a portable paint booth he brings to your house.
I'm seriously considering this with me as the assistant. Mine will be sprayed with enamel auto paint.
Many on the list have done their own.
If you want to see pics of my construction, go to www.701Builder.com . I have posted all the good pics
I have to date on my construction, in basic order of building although I did jump back and forth between
assemblies. I haven't added many descriptions for these pics but it might give you an idea what to expect
and use as a reference. Make sure to sign the guestbook!
Brian
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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ashontz
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Newbie building CH701 - Corrosion / Gotchas |
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6061-T6 as is is pretty corrosion resistant. What I'm using for additional corrosion protection is cleaning of the parts witha degreaser, then using Metal Prep 79 to etch the metal, then just spraying the parts with automotive primer.
Technically you can build the whole thing with no primers of any sort, but why. Even an automotive primer sprayed on a cleaned etch surface is pretty good, and a hell of a lot better than nothing. I had an aluminum boat that was used in salt water for years, that just had automotive primer on it. The only place I ever really saw any corrosion was where dissimilar metals touched the aluminum. Attach a stainless screw on the boat hull, put it in the water, and wait a year for the aluminum to corrode. The fix to that for boats anyway is to put a sacrificial zinc anode on the boat. The zinc corrodes rather than the aluminum, just like the negative terimal on a battery corrodes becauses that's the flow of electrons.
I haven't heard of sacrificial anodes on airplanes (maybe there are) but they're used on boats for sure, even if it's a fiberglass boat, you still put one on the aluminum case on the engine. Seeing as how you're building a seaplane, I'd keep this in mind, this is probably you're best corrosion protection along wth priming everything too. I'd imagine every large part on the plane would need one, which isn't a big deal seeing as how they only weigh a few ounces.
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