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wingtip crack< FOR BOB >

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eskflyer(at)lvcisp.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >

BOB

I am one who has worked on boats, infact built many . If you have a problem 

with someone who cannot glass that is one thing but to insinuate that 

someone who builds boats does not know what they are doing is  not very nice

akflyer
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >

now I know why your bird flys with the left wing down all the time....musta got a bit too much glass on that side.. I told you that a full gallon of resin was not necessary for a lil ole 3" " linear indication" (I hate the "c" word).....



Didn't Dad teach you the difference between roving, mat and cloth and the appropriate times to use each... I swear us boat guys must be stupid or something...maybe from huffing too much acetone...I guess we better seek profesional help next time we need to fix something as elementary as fibergalss.....

eskflyer(at)lvcisp.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >

UHHH i dunno what ya talkin about that 3 inch whatever you said thingy is 

actually a shotgun blast from the last time we went snipe hunting and tilt 

is to the right you  were facing backwards  fring out the door when you got 

the tip . and all that weight is from the duct tape and gorilla glue with 

the bluejean patch on top . dang cant you remember anything after burning a 

few .



Cant hardly wait to get back home and fly with ya bro

Fly safe fly low fly slow

John Perry

Kitfox 2 N718PD



DO NOT ARCHIVE

---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >

I think what he was getting at was the use of vacuum bagging parts, using

pre preg or weighed resin to glass ratios as opposed to spray up or lay up

commonly used in boats.



I might be wrong.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

akflyer
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >

the replies are still funny.....oh yeah... I have vacuum bagged boat parts too.... But it was a model lol.

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:15 am Post subject: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: john perry [eskflyer(at)lvcisp.com]

 If you have a problem with someone who cannot glass that is one thing but to 

 insinuate that someone who builds boats does not know what they are doing

 is  not very nice.


	


Question: What is exposed to sun, rain and gale winds 24/7, while being constantly flexed by corrosive salty water masses?



Is it a bird? ... is it a plane? ... could it be a boat?

 Michel



do not archive

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_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Bob

Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Damascus, Maryland, USA

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:33 am Post subject: Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >

Whew, touchy bunch and methinks my answer was misconstrued a bit here.  

No offense meant or taken, but my exact words were "...preferabley from somebody who knows the difference between..." because there is a frequently a difference.  Hey, if you're comfortable working both, so much the better.  



For those who don't know what this means, airplane work uses a lot less resin, is more limited in types of resins to be used, typically uses more plies, of much finer weaves, with strict ply control.  I wasn't even referring to vacuum bagging or autoclaves.  Some marine/boat applications are identical, especially in the high performance sailboats.  If you want to see a boat application with really high quality control, check out the mast or spar construction for some of the racers!  The fabric and resin control in some of the offshore racers and racing motorcycle parts is fantastic!



However, there are a lot of people who do NOT know the difference.  They'll get whatever resin from Home Depot, have no idea about the cloth they buy or use some old automotive cloth that was kept behind an oil furnace (oil can keep resin from wetting the cloth), slop it on with a big old paintbrush of any type, then fill it smooth with nice heavy automotive Bondo, and paint to match.  I can think of at least two homebuilts that had in-flight failures from this kind of construction and have talked to FAA inspectors who see a lot of really heavy composite homebuilts. 



I grew up on Atwood Lake in Ohio and worked QC for several years in a CT composites shop where our main products were rotorblades and other aircraft parts, so I have some idea of both ends of the spectrum.  Sorry if I offended, but I loved the wit, too!



Bob

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Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:29 am Post subject: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Bob [dswaim1119(at)comcast.net]

 However, there are a lot of people who do NOT know the difference.


	


Of course, Bob! (Did you note the smiley at the end of my email?)

The key word here is; certification. If you have an aircraft or a boat that is certified, it will be built according to some strict rules. If you have a boat that is certified by e.g. Lloyds or DNV, you can be assured that it was not built with just anything; the life of a seafarer is as important as the life of an airman. 

This being said, I am not sure you are right with the amount of resin used for both application. When it comes to polyester resin and glassfiber, certification authorities agree that the percentage of weight should be 70-30 with 70% of glassfiber. That is what they have tested to give the best strenght-weight ratio, I think.



One main difference must certainly be the weight, which is not so important for seagoing craft. For an aircraft, strong but costly carbon fiber is certainly the way to go if you can afford it. Kevlar is also a beautiful product. But there are other improving techniques like my 27 feet sailboat that was built in polyester and glassfiber but without catalyser. The hull is then put in an "oven" and "baked" at 85 degrees C for 48 hours. The strenght is then supposed to be 120% that of the catalyser technique. Of course, very few yards can afford such an "oven" room.



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

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_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:48 am Post subject: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >

DO NOT ARCHIVE   !!!



Need I say more?

Deke



---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >

The process you described for aircraft will produce a part with extremely

high strength.... But ( here we go again)  BUT it permeable to water.  Not

to the point where it will flow like a Tetley teabag but bad enough that

after filling with water it can delaminate if allowed to freeze.  Boat

construction as you said uses a lot more resin.  This also gives a good

strong product but is much heavier and of course is impermeable to water.



Boats will often have wrinkles and things in their design to make them more

rigid... Planes need the same thing but all the stiffeners need to be inside

out of the airflow.



Most people who use fibre glass know what is required to do either type of

work.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Glenn Horne

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 96

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >

John, I think he was saying that there was two ways of doing the glass work. 

One

for boats and one for aircraft.

---

akflyer
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >

yeah john... and dont you try to confuse the issue with comments about "burning one" you will start a whole new war....

I catagorically deny having any involvment in your above mentioned activities and / or never inhaled.



DO NOT ACHIVE

enough said

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