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jindoguy(at)gmail.com Guest
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:04 pm Post subject: HKS engine install |
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Herb, Harry, Dave et al, Here are the addresses of the HKS Installation and Operation Manuals.
Installation manual
http://www.hpower-ltd.com/pdf%20files/IManual_Eng.pdf
Operation manual
http://www.hpower-ltd.com/pdf%20files/OManual_Eng.pdf
In the current version of the installation manual there is no mention of an oil thermostat. Unlike the Oddysey install, the second inlet to the oil tank is not plugged, but is used for a line coming directly from the engine. What you get is one line coming from the engine going directly to the oil tank and another going to the oil cooler and then to the tank. The oil temp sensor is at the bottom of the tank along with the line returning oil to the engine. When I talked to Dana at Flightstar he advised doing the same thing Dave has done, just cover a portion of the oil cooler to bring the temps up.
Harry, I'm unsure of how to answer your question about cooling, but perhaps this will help a little.
The Rotax 912 has air cooled cylinders and water cooled heads. The HKS has air cooled cylinders and oil cooled heads. In truth all "air cooled" engines get roughly 30% or their cooling from their oil, the HKS just goes one step further and circulates the oil through passages in the heads just as Rotax does the same with water (water and ethylene glycol mix) The principle difference between the two engines oiling systems is that the Rotax is a wet sump engine and the HKS is a dry sump i.e. Rotax pressure feeds oil to the engine after which it drains into the sump where it is picked up by the oil pump and the circulation begins again. The HKS has a second scavenging pump that picks up the oil from the sump and sends it to the oil tank, hence "dry" sump.
Rick
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport. [quote][b]
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Paul Petty
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Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 226 Location: Mississippi
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:15 am Post subject: Re: HKS engine install |
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The principle difference between the two engines oiling systems is that the Rotax is a wet sump engine and the HKS is a dry sump i.e. Rotax pressure feeds oil to the engine after which it drains into the sump where it is picked up by the oil pump and the circulation begins again. The HKS has a second scavenging pump that picks up the oil from the sump and sends it to the oil tank, hence "dry" sump.
??????
Rick,
Rotax 912's/914's are dry sump engines. They have a 3qt remote tank that the oil is returned to by crankcase pressure. Are you sure the HKS has a second oil pump that "sends it to the oil tank"????
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_________________ Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
912 UL 70" warp |
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Thom Riddle
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 1597 Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:12 am Post subject: HKS engine install |
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.. the Rotax is a wet sump engine...
Rick,
You must not be talking about the 912 series engines if you are talking
wet sump, though throughout this thread I thought the comparison was to
the 912 series not the 582. Maybe I misunderstood.
By the way, we installed an external oil thermostat on our 912UL last
winter to help warm up the engine faster and it works well, but still
have to cover the oil cooler inlet a bit to get the temps up to normal
in the winters here.
Thom in Buffalo
do not archive
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_________________ Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous |
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jindoguy(at)gmail.com Guest
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am Post subject: HKS engine install |
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Paul, Yes, it's much like the system that Harley Davidson uses. Consider that an oil pump is only two gears in a close fitting housing with a hole on either side of the gear set. When the gears turn oil is drawn in one hole and pushed out the other. To add a second pump all that must be done is add a second housing and gear set, but they can share the same drive shaft. See:
http://www.hpower-ltd.com/pdf%20files/IManual_Eng.pdf
page 11
Rick
On 3/18/07, Paul Petty <paulpetty(at)myway.com (paulpetty(at)myway.com)> wrote:[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <paulpetty(at)myway.com (paulpetty(at)myway.com)>
The principle difference between the two engines oiling systems is that the Rotax is a wet sump engine and the HKS is a dry sump i.e. Rotax pressure feeds oil to the engine after which it drains into the sump where it is picked up by the oil pump and the circulation begins again. The HKS has a second scavenging pump that picks up the oil from the sump and sends it to the oil tank, hence "dry" sump.
??????
Rick,
Rotax 912's/914's are dry sump engines. They have a 3qt remote tank that the oil is returned to by crankcase pressure. Are you sure the HKS has a second oil pump that "sends it to the oil tank"????
--------
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
Final assembly!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101352#101352 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
when you live at the airport. [quote][b]
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jindoguy(at)gmail.com Guest
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:18 am Post subject: HKS engine install |
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Thom, My bad here, as the kids say. I was having virtually the same discussion at the local EAA meeting last night, only comparing Lycosaurus type engines to the HKS system. I shouldn't be allowed near a computer after midnight, my brain just doesn't function.
Harry's question as I understood it was about differences between cooling of the HKS and the 912 since he is nearing overhaul or replacement of the 582.
Rick
On 3/18/07, Thom Riddle <thomriddle(at)adelphia.net (thomriddle(at)adelphia.net)> wrote: Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle <thomriddle(at)adelphia.net (thomriddle(at)adelphia.net)>
... the Rotax is a wet sump engine...
Rick,
You must not be talking about the 912 series engines if you are talking
wet sump, though throughout this thread I thought the comparison was to
the 912 series not the 582. Maybe I misunderstood.
By the way, we installed an external oil thermostat on our 912UL last
winter to help warm up the engine faster and it works well, but still
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--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport. [quote][b]
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John Hauck
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Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 4639 Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:51 am Post subject: HKS engine install |
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| The Rotax 912 has air cooled cylinders and water cooled heads. The
principle
| difference between the two engines oiling systems is that the Rotax
is a wet
| sump engine and the HKS is a dry sump i.e. Rotax pressure feeds oil
to the
| engine after which it drains into the sump where it is picked up by
the oil
| pump and the circulation begins again. The HKS has a second
scavenging pump
| that picks up the oil from the sump and sends it to the oil tank,
hence
| "dry" sump.
|
| Rick
Rick:
This may come as a big surprise to you. The 912 series engines are
primarly oil cooled. Cylinders are aircooled and heads are oil and
water cooled. The reason Rotax went with water cooling of the heads
was the heat generated by the 912 would require very large cooling
fins to cool the heads and require a much larger package. Water
cooling helped make the 912 a nice tidy package.
Also, the 912 is a dry sump engine that uses crank case pressure
created by blow by to push the oil from the sump up to the oil tank
with 3 to 5 psi. It has one pump for circulation and does not use a
pump for oil return to tank.
I can not speak for the HKS, but bet you that the HKS also uses blow
by pressure for oil return. I may be wrong, but it will not be the
first time.
Take care,
john h
mkIII/912ULS (zero time)
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_________________ John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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John Hauck
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Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 4639 Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: HKS engine install |
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To add a second pump all that must be done is add
| a second housing and gear set, but they can share the same drive
shaft. See:
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| http://www.hpower-ltd.com/pdf%20files/IManual_Eng.pdf
RickG:
I looked through the entire installation manual, then went back to pg
11 and still see nothing about a return oil pump.
john h
mkIII
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_________________ John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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Dave Bigelow
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Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 103 Location: Kamuela, Hawaii
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:52 am Post subject: Re: HKS engine install |
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John Hauck wrote:
Quote: | I looked through the entire installation manual, then went back to pg
11 and still see nothing about a return oil pump. |
John,
It's kind of hard to see from the views on page 11 in the installation manual, but the oil pump housing has two return lines running from two sections of the same pump. One goes to the radiator, and the other goes to the tank. Look at the top view of the engine. The section sticking out from the center is the oil pump housing.
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_________________ Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, HKS 700E |
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