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cookflys(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: cabin doors

Thanks to all that responded on where and what model of lift strut to purchase.  My model II builders manual has no information on location and how to attach struts.  With out seeing an example, what seems to be a easy installation has me second guessing. Any suggestions, pictures, drawings before I start boring holes would be appreciated.

   

  Charles Cook KF363



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Total Messages Posted Thu 04/12/07: 38

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Today's Message Index:

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1. 12:29 AM - cabin door struts (charles  cook)

2. 05:19 AM - Re: cabin door struts (Noel Loveys)

3. 06:11 AM - Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL (Clem Nichols)

4. 06:56 AM - Re: bing 64 carb (kitfoxmike)

5. 07:21 AM - Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL (Larry Martin)

6. 07:48 AM - Re: cabin door struts (Guy Buchanan)

7. 07:56 AM - Re: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL (Guy Buchanan)

8. 08:01 AM - Re: cabin door struts (Lowell Fitt)

9. 08:29 AM - Re: Carb slide position at full throttle on a two stroke Rotax (Tom Jones)

10. 08:31 AM - Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL (kurt schrader)

11. 08:32 AM - Re: cabin door struts (jdmcbean)

12. 08:46 AM - Re: cabin door struts (flier)

13. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: Carb slide position at full throttle on a two stroke Rotax ()

14. 08:53 AM - attn John McBean Wing tips ()

15. 09:21 AM - Re: cabin door struts (Marco Menezes)

16. 09:52 AM - Re: Fuel tanks (Bob)

17. 10:15 AM - Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL (Clem  Nichols)

18. 10:18 AM - Re: attn John McBean Wing tips (jdmcbean)

19. 11:59 AM - Re: Re: bing 64 carb (mic thiessen)

20. 12:03 PM - Re: Carb slide position at full throttle on a two stroke Rotax (Tom Jones)

21. 12:07 PM - Locktite on spinner bolt. (Tom Jones)

22. 02:23 PM - Re: bing 64 carb (kitfoxmike)

23. 02:38 PM - Re: 912 UL with IVO props (crazyivan)

24. 03:50 PM - Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL (Larry Martin)

25. 04:44 PM - Kitfox powder coat surface rusting?? (George Michaels)

26. 04:54 PM - Re: Locktite on spinner bolt. (neflyer48)

27. 05:00 PM - Re: Re: Carb slide position at full throttle on a two stroke Rotax ()

28. 05:17 PM - Kitfox List Admin Retirement (fox5flyer)

29. 05:25 PM - Re: Locktite on spinner bolt. (Tom Jones)

30. 05:50 PM - New List administrators coming on board (Don Pearsall)

31. 05:53 PM - Re: Kitfox List Admin Retirement (Herbert R Gottelt)

32. 06:10 PM - Re: Kitfox List Admin Retirement (Larry  Huntley)

33. 06:23 PM - Re: Re: Locktite on spinner bolt. (Randy Daughenbaugh)

34. 06:23 PM - Re: Kitfox List Admin Retirement (Randy Daughenbaugh)

35. 07:09 PM - Re: cabin door struts (Glenn Horne)

36. 08:23 PM - Re: New List administrators coming on board (Roger McConnell)

37. 09:52 PM - Re: Kitfox List Admin Retirement (Mdkitfox(at)aol.com)

38. 10:02 PM - Re: Kitfox List Admin Retirement (Mdkitfox(at)aol.com)



________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________

Time: 12:29:00 AM PST US

From: charles cook 

Subject: cabin door struts



Does anybody have a picture or drawing on where and how to attach the lift struts

to the door frame and cabin door. Where did you buy the gas struts?

Charles Cook 

---------------------------------

Looking for earth-friendly autos? 

Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.  



________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________

Time: 05:19:50 AM PST US

From: "Noel Loveys" 

Subject: RE: cabin door struts



I got one that I was able to fit to the plane from a salvage yard. I 

have

two others here that art too long.

Noel



--

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: cabin doors

I put one on the pilot side  without drilling any holes....  I'll send a couple of pictures  tomorrow.

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

xfire

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 16

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: Re: cabin doors

[quote="Float Flyr"]I put one on the pilot side  without drilling any holes....  I'll send a couple of pictures  tomorrow.

  

  

 

Noel  	  Quote: 	
		     

   -- 	




Noel, can you please send the pics to me also



Thanks

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: cabin doors

I was working outside all day today.  I'll go out in about a half an hour

and take the pictures and post them here.  They will be small but accurate.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: cabin doors

Ok now I have the pictures.



The installation  was done with two small pieces of  angle.  I used some  metal (about .032") which I bent into angle.  The angle is  is  held to the cross tube behind the pilot and to the frame of the back of the  door.  I put the strut on the back of the door because I fly floats and  have to enter from the front.  The angle extrusions are slotted With a  Dremel tool right at the angle to allow them to be mounted on the tubes with  small gear clamps.  Every thing is out in the open where it is easy to  inspect.  Surprisingly none of the four gear clamps have loosened at  all.  The brackets have a hole drilled in them which the ball end of the  two ball and socket ends is bolted through.  

 The height of the bracket on the door is  important.  It should be higher than the distance of the lower bracket form  the door closed position to give an over centre positive close to the door when  the door is pulled down.  

  

 The position of the door bracket is set to allow  an almost a full closure of the strut while closing the  door.

  

 This strut is 9 in. long, 10.5 in over all and  has the ball and socket joints with the balls at both ends.  I got this  strut from a local salvage yard and have no idea what it came out of.  I'm  sure you can find the complete unit at an automotive supply shop if you don't  have a salvage yard you can browse.

 



[img]cid:303392322(at)20042007-2BF0[/img]

 

The next picture is a close up of the bracket on the cross  tube.  It strut ball is mounted far enough into the plane so as not to  interfere with the operation of the door. 

[img]cid:303392322(at)20042007-2BF7[/img] 

I put this on my door as occasionally I like to fly and always  taxi with the door open.  If the salvage yard had two of these struts I  would have installed both of them.  It has worked well for the past year or  so so I guess the next thing to do is paint the brackets to make them look as if  they belonged there. 

I'm far from a fortune teller but I do see another trip to the  salvage yard for me in the near future. 

Removing the door is easy as there is a little metal clip that  holds the socket of the strut over the ball.  I just have to make sure to  keep the clips with the strut. 

Clear as Mud?? 

Noel



[quote] -----Original  Message-----

 From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com

 [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com)]  On Behalf Of xfire

 Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:55 PM

 To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: cabin  doors

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by:  "xfire"

 <leonard.perry(at)acsalaska.net>



  [quote="Float Flyr"]I put one on the pilot side  without

 drilling  any holes....  I'll send a couple of pictures   tomorrow.

  

  

 

  Noel

 >   

 >     --

 Noel, can you please send the pics to me  also



 Thanks





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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

GONER752(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: cabin doors

Noel,

  Thanks for posting the pic's. I've been wanting to strut the doors,  but really couldn't imagine any mounts pop riveted to tubing lasting against the  forces of the struts.Good job.These are keepers for me.

 Greg G   

 375KL

Mod  2

582





See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

davef(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:54 pm Post subject: cabin doors

Greg, 

 I don't have lift struts but just a clip on each door and i can fly with  one or both doors half open or full open. 

 There it really no force  at all on them.

 "pop rivets"  can be extremely strong depending on  the rivet and  the install . 

 Many many planes are made of alum and " pop rivets " only. 

  

  

 Dave 

 [quote]   ---

kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:57 am Post subject: cabin doors

My classic 4 came with the strut mounts as part of the kit but I did not know it was safe to open the doors in flight.  Do a lot of people open them in flight or just leave them open when taking off.  

   

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys

 Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 5:34 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: cabin doors  

  

   

Ok now I have the pictures.

 

 The installation was done with two small pieces of  angle.  I used some metal (about .032") which I bent into angle.  The angle is  is held to the cross tube behind the pilot and to the frame of the back of the door.  I put the strut on the back of the door because I fly floats and have to enter from the front.  The angle extrusions are slotted With a Dremel tool right at the angle to allow them to be mounted on the tubes with small gear clamps.  Every thing is out in the open where it is easy to inspect.  Surprisingly none of the four gear clamps have loosened at all.  The brackets have a hole drilled in them which the ball end of the two ball and socket ends is bolted through.    

   

    

The height of the bracket on the door is important.  It should be higher than the distance of the lower bracket form the door closed position to give an over centre positive close to the door when the door is pulled down.    

    

   

    

The position of the door bracket is set to allow an [b]almost[/b] a full closure of the strut while closing the door.  

    

   

    

This strut is 9 in. long, 10.5 in over all and has the ball and socket joints with the balls at both ends.  I got this strut from a local salvage yard and have no idea what it came out of.  I'm sure you can find the complete unit at an automotive supply shop if you don't have a salvage yard you can browse.  

  



 

 

 [img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C783E2.313198D0[/img]  

The next picture is a close up of the bracket on the cross tube.  It strut ball is mounted far enough into the plane so as not to interfere with the operation of the door.  

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01C783E2.313198D0[/img]  

I put this on my door as occasionally I like to fly and always taxi with the door open.  If the salvage yard had two of these struts I would have installed both of them.  It has worked well for the past year or so so I guess the next thing to do is paint the brackets to make them look as if they belonged there.  

I'm far from a fortune teller but I do see another trip to the salvage yard for me in the near future.  

Removing the door is easy as there is a little metal clip that holds the socket of the strut over the ball.  I just have to make sure to keep the clips with the strut.  

Clear as Mud??  

Noel

 

 

 

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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:44 am Post subject: cabin doors

I've opened mine in flight , but only at or about 50mph.



Lynn

p.s. The installation of the struts is a lot cleaner if using the pre- 

made parts probably available from John McBean. My parts came with my  

kit. The mounting "angles" are actually a piece of tubing with the  

mounting flange welded on (you can make these if you can weld), then  

cut lengthwise. The roundness of the tubing gives a better contact  

with the door frame.



On Apr 21, 2007, at 7:57 AM, kirk hull wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   My classic 4 came with the strut mounts as part of the kit but I  

 did not know it was safe to open the doors in flight.  Do a lot of  

 people open them in flight or just leave them open when taking off.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

asq(at)roadrunner.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:46 am Post subject: cabin doors

My 4 Has no struts,but the doors fly in the up position when open in  flight. It  is a long reach over nothing to reach out and close the left  one ,but if you slip a bit it will come down and close by itself. You just have  to latch it. 

   I usually don't open it til after takeoff as the wheels throw stuff  on the glass. I guess it wouldn't make any difference if you are flying off dry  pavement.                               Larry Huntley   4-1200

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:47 am Post subject: cabin doors

Some  guys have strutted the doors from the front the hose clamps would have to be  placed through between the glass and the frame. Because the installation  isn't permanent you can move from front to back in a few  minutes.

  

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:36 am Post subject: cabin doors

At 04:57 AM 4/21/2007, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  My classic 4 came with the strut mounts as part of the kit but I did not know it was safe to open the doors in flight.  Do a lot of people open them in flight or just leave them open when taking off. 	


         I open mine in flight. I don't like distractions during takeoff. I have the struts aft so they vibrate a little when open above 65 mph. They are bubble doors and generate quite a bit of lift. You have to be careful opening them lest they rip out of your hands and you have to pull hard to close them. It's a great view, though!



 

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.     [quote][b]

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:45 am Post subject: cabin doors

I guess that depends on what  you are doing.  My model III-A cruises something less than 90 mph. If I  want to take a picture or something I will slow that down to below 70 and open  the door with no problem.  At cruise it gets a bit cold and that's enough  reason to keep the doors closed.  On the water I think it's a good idea to  at least  unlatch the door....Just in case.

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: cabin doors

Well I guess on the next warm day I will just have to slow it down a little bit and open the doors.  Thanks for the input  

   

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull

 Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 6:57 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: cabin doors  

  

   

My classic 4 came with the strut mounts as part of the kit but I did not know it was safe to open the doors in flight.  Do a lot of people open them in flight or just leave them open when taking off.  

   

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys

 Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 5:34 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: cabin doors  

  

   

Ok now I have the pictures.

 

 The installation was done with two small pieces of  angle.  I used some metal (about .032") which I bent into angle.  The angle is  is held to the cross tube behind the pilot and to the frame of the back of the door.  I put the strut on the back of the door because I fly floats and have to enter from the front.  The angle extrusions are slotted With a Dremel tool right at the angle to allow them to be mounted on the tubes with small gear clamps.  Every thing is out in the open where it is easy to inspect.  Surprisingly none of the four gear clamps have loosened at all.  The brackets have a hole drilled in them which the ball end of the two ball and socket ends is bolted through.    

   

    

The height of the bracket on the door is important.  It should be higher than the distance of the lower bracket form the door closed position to give an over centre positive close to the door when the door is pulled down.    

    

   

    

The position of the door bracket is set to allow an [b]almost[/b] a full closure of the strut while closing the door.  

    

   

    

This strut is 9 in. long, 10.5 in over all and has the ball and socket joints with the balls at both ends.  I got this strut from a local salvage yard and have no idea what it came out of.  I'm sure you can find the complete unit at an automotive supply shop if you don't have a salvage yard you can browse.  

  



 

 

 [img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C78415.AC594660[/img]  

The next picture is a close up of the bracket on the cross tube.  It strut ball is mounted far enough into the plane so as not to interfere with the operation of the door.  

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01C78415.AC594660[/img]  

I put this on my door as occasionally I like to fly and always taxi with the door open.  If the salvage yard had two of these struts I would have installed both of them.  It has worked well for the past year or so so I guess the next thing to do is paint the brackets to make them look as if they belonged there.  

I'm far from a fortune teller but I do see another trip to the salvage yard for me in the near future.  

Removing the door is easy as there is a little metal clip that holds the socket of the strut over the ball.  I just have to make sure to keep the clips with the strut.  

Clear as Mud??  

Noel

 

 

 

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