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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:10 am Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

Off topic, other than telling how GREAT a plane the Kitfox is in  

saving one's bacon during less-than-perfect flying conditions.



  This is a description of my recent attempt to fly to the Sun 'n'  

Fun Fly-in, held in Lakeland, Florida. A friend, Nihl, was flying in  

his own plane, a  very nice 1963 Cessna 150. I was flying my own  

Kitfox Model IV Speedster with a Jabiru 2200 engine for power.



We left the Napoleon, MI airport (3NP), at 7:30 am local time, last  

Monday, and flew the 230 statute miles to Sporty's Pilot Shop at  

Batavia, OH, in 96 minutes. Along the way I was showing 108mph  

Indicated airspeed, while my GPS was showing 177mph ground speed...we  

had a 70 mph tailwind!  Nearing Dayton, Ohio's airspace, Nihl called  

to notify ATC that we wished to transit their airspace, saying we  

were a flight of two. The controller could not locate a flight of  

two, and we discovered that Nihl's transponder did not transmit. I  

was asked to squawk 0346, which I did and the controller told us that  

my transponder worked, but his did not. Still not being real  

comfortable with use of the radio, I was letting Nihl handle the  

radio chores, while I became the designated transponder operator. ( I  

was handling my own "self-announce" at the untowered airports)  

Landing at Sporty's was a bit tricky, as the wind was almost a direct  

crosswind, but both planes landed ok. We spent about an hour at  

Sporty's, Nihl buying charts and fuel...I did not need fuel.



  During our stopover at Sporty's, the wind increased, and became  

more of a direct crosswind, and I was nervous about taking off using  

the regular runway. I asked for permission to use what I found out  

was called "high-speed turnoffs" for part of my takeoff "runway".  

This was granted, so I taxied onto the normal taxiway, turned around,  

and started out, using about 50 feet of the normal taxiway, turning  

left onto the high-speed turnoff which is at 45 degrees to the  

taxiway and the main runway, and crossing the main runway, I lifted  

off with an approximately 45 degree crosswind. This worked out quite  

well for me. Nihl, with his heavier plane, used the runway with no  

problems.



  My flight instructor had told me before I left that since I was  

used to following section lines as part of my Michigan-based VFR  

navigation procedures, that I would not find a recognizable section  

line in Kentucky, and he was right. Suddenly there were no more  

straight lines to follow, just curves, and hills and wandering rivers.

I had my chart and my GPS, so navigation was no problem. Nihl called  

and told  me we were clear to fly at 5500 feet elevation, which  

became too bumpy, so I asked him to ask for permission to go to 7500,  

which was granted. Minutes later, he called to say "Lynn, go to 5500  

feet IMMEDIATELY!" I did, and it turned out traffic

was the reason for the command. A few minutes later the traffic was  

gone...whatever it was...and we were cleared to go back up to 7500.  

It was getting very bumpy, and I could see puffy clouds coming up,  

and avoided then, but could feel the bumps as they passed by. Seeing  

a bank of clouds that I wanted to avoid, I climbed even higher...we  

were no longer under the jurisdiction of the ATC by this time. I was  

getting closer to the ridge of clouds, and was at 9500 feet, close to  

my Sport Pilot-mandated ceiling of 10,000 feet, and could see that I  

was not going to make it over the clouds even if I bent the rules  

"for safety", so I decided to head down. All this last 10 minutes or  

so, the turbulence was getting greater, and as I descended, I was  

getting hammered, and Nihl came on the radio and said he was going to  

land, pointing out an airport below. I had the airport in sight, and  

was thinking the same thing. I was well into the yellow band of my  

airspeed indicator, and had to flatten out the descent to keep the  

speed down into the green, even though this meant spending more time  

getting bounced around. At one point I noticed that my GPS had lost  

power, due to the cigar lighter power supply becoming loose due to  

the vibration, bouncing, bumping, and slamming around that the plane  

was getting. I had to circle the field to try and find the windsock,  

and saw that it was straight out and at a 90 degree angle to the left  

side of the runway, and I saw no other choices for landing. I came in  

with left wing down as much as I could try to hold it there, and the  

plane was really getting tossed. The left wheel made contact, bounced  

a bit, and the left wing came up, slamming the right wheel down with  

the plane starting to point to the left. I got lucky as hell that the  

plane didn't groundloop, or cartwheel or anything else. I got stopped  

pointing into the wind at the left side of the runway, completed the  

rest of the turn to the left and back taxied off at the first turnoff  

and pulled the plane up to a closed hangar for shelter from the wind.  

I got out to assess the damage, and found that the right wheel pant  

was slightly damaged due to the tire being flexed sideways (during  

that hard hit) and grabbing the fairing and causing the fairing to be  

pulled into and bent upwards, inside the pant, and dragging on the  

tire. I unscrewed the fairing and left it off and tied the plane down  

with help from a guy at the airport. During this time, Nihl was  

trying to get down, and on his third attempt was successful.

We later discovered that we had landed at Scott County Airport (SCX),  

near Oneida, Tennessee. More later on what a great facility, and  

great people they have down there.



In retrospect, I'm surprised that the tire didn't roll off the rim. I  

have tubeless tires with no tubes, and even though  there are good  

deep bead retention grooves in the wheels, I'm tempted to put tubes  

in them if for nothing other than making it easier....if I can find  

tubes with bent stems....to check tire pressure.



  Next:  Staying at the airport, making decisions, and getting back.



DO NOT ARCHIVE

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:53 am Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

Thanks for the PIREP, Lynn. I love reading that stuff and you're good 

at writing too. It feels like being there. Keep your reports coming in.



On Apr 21, 2007, at 1:12 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Minutes later, he called to say "Lynn, go to 5500 feet IMMEDIATELY!"


	


Here I get a bit puzzled. When you fly formation, don't you both listen 

to the same ATC frequency? Over here, we fly together, one leading, 

talking and squawking and the other one remaining silent of the ATC 

frequency. Then one or the other may request to change for a few 

minutes to a Unicom frequency to chat a bit, then back to the ATC. The 

main point here is that ATC knows at any time on which frequency you 

are. This is especially a must when you fly with a flight plan.



 	  Quote: 	
		   had to flatten out the descent to keep the speed down into the green, 

 even though this meant spending more time getting bounced around.


	


Do you side-slip to increase your ROD without gaining speed?



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

dcsfoto

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 120

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:46 am Post subject: Re: My

enjoyed the report great job

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:26 am Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

I'm very new to the formation flying bit, and still don't have my  

"radio endorsement", so I was letting the other flier handle the  

radio chores. I would have preferred to just go around the areas that  

required radio contact...at least until I have confidence in my radio  

manners and expertise. We were flying without flight plan.

There was no way in hades that I was going to slip at that altitude,  

or under those turbulent conditions. At least, I don't THINK that it  

would be safe. Maybe someone could enlighten me. I'm going to run the  

whole scenario past my flight instructor, but he's out of town.

Thinking back on it, the other flier was good on the radio, but a bit  

off when it came to navigation. His GPS was not the moving map  

variety, and because I was following him, and trying to coax him back  

onto our heading, we got off-track by a bunch. No excuses, but I'd  

rather have been the one heading up the mission, because I had the  

more up-to-date GPS, and would have steered us around the busy  

airspaces, and away from radio talk. Using the charts was problematic  

at best in Kentucky, because of the wide separation between towns,  

landmarks, whatever, and also the lack of good N-S and E-W section  

lines. I was relying on my GPS to guide me, and even though I had my  

chart marked, I hadn't written down a list of landmarks to guide me  

visually. I made a big mistake in not doing that. When the turbulence  

became a factor, it didn't matter where we were, because the chart  

was the last thing on my mind, because I saw the airport below. If my  

GPS would have crapped out before it did, and I had no idea where I  

was, then reverting back to the chart would have been the only  

option, or steering over to I-75 (a divided Interstate highway),  

which was also in view.

Before I go on another trip, I'll learn more about weather, and what  

conditions cause what, and be better prepared to observe what I'm  

getting into, and make a decision earlier as to when to go down, or  

stay down 'til another day, or 'til conditions improve.

Lynn

do not archive

On Apr 21, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Thanks for the PIREP, Lynn. I love reading that stuff and you're  

 good at writing too. It feels like being there. Keep your reports  

 coming in.

 On Apr 21, 2007, at 1:12 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:

> Minutes later, he called to say "Lynn, go to 5500 feet IMMEDIATELY!"

 Here I get a bit puzzled. When you fly formation, don't you both  

 listen to the same ATC frequency? Over here, we fly together, one  

 leading, talking and squawking and the other one remaining silent  

 of the ATC frequency. Then one or the other may request to change  

 for a few minutes to a Unicom frequency to chat a bit, then back to  

 the ATC. The main point here is that ATC knows at any time on which  

 frequency you are. This is especially a must when you fly with a  

 flight plan.

> had to flatten out the descent to keep the speed down into the  

> green, even though this meant spending more time getting bounced  

> around.

 Do you side-slip to increase your ROD without gaining speed?

 Cheers,

 Michel

 do not archive

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

On Apr 21, 2007, at 9:25 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm very new to the formation flying bit, and still don't have my 

 "radio endorsement", so I was letting the other flier handle the radio 

 chores.


	


If I understand correctly, Lynn, you were listening to a unicom 

frequency while your friend was on the ATC frequency. I think it is 

better that you both are on the same frequency. Then you would both had 

received the instruction to descend in order to avoid another traffic. 

Of course, while on the ATC frequency you can't talk to the other plane 

but you can e.g. ask ATC to change frequency to unicom. At that moment, 

your friend will also know that he must change frequency because you 

wish to talk to him. In any case, and for a reason of safety, anyone 

can break international radio rules if it is to prevent a fatal 

accident. This is valid for maritime, aviation and ham radio.

As seen from ATC point of view, it is also important that the 

controller knows at any moment on which frequency you are. If you are a 

flight of two, or more, he or she would expect to have you both on the 

same frequency. Since you were warned of a meeting traffic, it meant 

that you were under radar coverage and even if you were in a G zone, 

the controller will prefer to give you traffic information rather than 

seeing a mid-air crash and a lot of paper work for him/her to do.

At least, that's my experience in Europe.



 	  Quote: 	
		   There was no way in hades that I was going to slip at that altitude, 

 or under those turbulent conditions.


	


I understand. Maybe I would also hesitate to do it. Was it very bad? 

Thermal or mechanic turbulence? Were you in a mountainous region? But I 

think side slipping is an important technique which I practice very 

often. Today, to warm up my engine for the oil change at the 200 hours 

of my Jabiru, I went for a few traffic pattern where each one was very 

high on final and I side slipped both ways to come fast to land on the 

mark. Last time was with the engine off. The reason is: If I loose 

power one day, and see a nice patch of grass to land on, I may be too 

low to do a 360 and fast sink rate will be my only alternative not to 

overshoot the field. Beside that, side slipping makes me feel I have 

control over the plane.



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

You understand correctly, Michel...me on unicom, he on ATC freq.  

Later, on the return trip, I did tune into ATC frequency, so I could  

hear first-hand the directions. At one point I had lost sight of the  

other plane, but I was on ATC freq., when I heard my friend call for  

clearance for transit through their airspace. It was granted. He was  

well ahead of me judging from his report of being 3 miles out. I was  

5 miles out. We were flying against a 20 mph headwind, and it seemed  

like forever for me to get to the airport. When I did get there, I  

made a call, stating that my friend called for clearance, but had  

neglected to say a flight of two. I told him where I was, altitude,  

etc., and he cleared me too. Even though there was no traffic (the  

controller said so), I felt better about making the call....got me  

over the mike fright, too. Since that call, I've either monitored the  

ATC freq., or made my own calls. The day following our return, we  

flew into Jackson, MI (JXN) airport, class D, and I made my own call.  

That was my first solo landing at a towered airport, and, explaining  

my "greenness" on the radio the controller said I was "doing fine".  

Maybe now my instructor will sign my radio endorsement...we'll see.

As to the turbulence, I'm not sure whether it was thermal or  

mechanical...how do you tell? We were on the edge of a tapering off  

mountain range, as the range gained altitude toward the east, and we  

were heading south, skirting the range to the west. The airport  

elevation was 1545 feet, and the nearby ridges are at about 3400-3500  

feet, within 20 miles. There is a windmill farm on those  

ridges...studying the chart now tells me something that I should have  

read back then. Telling other pilots about where we were, elicits the  

response of "you should've gone further west."  And had we been  

flying the chart that I marked, we would have been 20 miles further  

west. Hard to say if 20 miles would have been more comfortable, but  

looking at the contours, the terrain would have been much flatter,  

and this seems to me now to have been a better route...hindsight and  

all that.

Was the turbulence bad? Did I mention that my friend's right seat  

came out of it's moorings? I don't think I did. He said the seat came  

over and hit him, and that stuff on the seat was flying about the  

cockpit. He later said he probably didn't have the belt tightened  

enough. I didn't look at his plane and how the seat was held in, but  

I will.

I practice slips a lot, because I have some fields that have trees on  

both ends with 1700-2600 feet runway between...mine is 1700 with  

trees at the normal approach end. I need to practice slips with  

slowing the plane with up elevator. I'm usually at full (20°) flaps  

when I slip. I'm better slipping with left wing down, and need to do  

more right slips, because I don't like to do them.

Lynn

do not archive

On Apr 21, 2007, at 5:20 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On Apr 21, 2007, at 9:25 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:

> I'm very new to the formation flying bit, and still don't have my  

> "radio endorsement", so I was letting the other flier handle the  

> radio chores.

 If I understand correctly, Lynn, you were listening to a unicom  

 frequency while your friend was on the ATC frequency. I think it is  

 better that you both are on the same frequency. Then you would both  

 had received the instruction to descend in order to avoid another  

 traffic. Of course, while on the ATC frequency you can't talk to  

 the other plane but you can e.g. ask ATC to change frequency to  

 unicom. At that moment, your friend will also know that he must  

 change frequency because you wish to talk to him. In any case, and  

 for a reason of safety, anyone can break international radio rules  

 if it is to prevent a fatal accident. This is valid for maritime,  

 aviation and ham radio.

 As seen from ATC point of view, it is also important that the  

 controller knows at any moment on which frequency you are. If you  

 are a flight of two, or more, he or she would expect to have you  

 both on the same frequency. Since you were warned of a meeting  

 traffic, it meant that you were under radar coverage and even if  

 you were in a G zone, the controller will prefer to give you  

 traffic information rather than seeing a mid-air crash and a lot of  

 paper work for him/her to do.

 At least, that's my experience in Europe.

> There was no way in hades that I was going to slip at that  

> altitude, or under those turbulent conditions.

 I understand. Maybe I would also hesitate to do it. Was it very  

 bad? Thermal or mechanic turbulence? Were you in a mountainous  

 region? But I think side slipping is an important technique which I  

 practice very often. Today, to warm up my engine for the oil change  

 at the 200 hours of my Jabiru, I went for a few traffic pattern  

 where each one was very high on final and I side slipped both ways  

 to come fast to land on the mark. Last time was with the engine  

 off. The reason is: If I loose power one day, and see a nice patch  

 of grass to land on, I may be too low to do a 360 and fast sink  

 rate will be my only alternative not to overshoot the field. Beside  

 that, side slipping makes me feel I have control over the plane.

 Cheers,

 Michel

 do not archive

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:44 pm Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

At 12:25 PM 4/21/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I would have preferred to just go around the areas that

required radio contact...at least until I have confidence in my radio

manners and expertise.


	


Best thing I ever did for radio work was buy and use the COMM-1 PC 

software for VFR flight. I still use it to brush up before a big 

cross-country. I also do preparatory cross countries before big cross 

countries. In the preparatory I do everything I would do on the long 

one, but do it all in one hour.



 	  Quote: 	
		  There was no way in hades that I was going to slip at that altitude,

or under those turbulent conditions.


	


A slip would not be unsafe if you were flying at less than 

maneuvering speed, Va, which I assume you were doing, given the conditions.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Using the charts was problematic

at best in Kentucky, because of the wide separation between towns,

landmarks, whatever, and also the lack of good N-S and E-W section

lines.


	


I had a good friend teach me pilotage in the wilds of Wyoming. It is 

amazing what you can identify on a chart and how you can 

cross-correlate that information to find your location. If you ever 

get a chance to do a mountain check-out, make sure the instructor 

helps you with this. You can often quite easily identify mountain 

geometry, stream and dry beds, lakes, and man-made objects sufficient 

to identify your location. When I flew to Ft. Worth from San Diego I 

used pilotage exclusively until I got to west Texas, where it became 

so flat I started to rely more on the GPS. Even then I kept a close 

track on where I was on the chart and made it a game to identify 

landmarks and locate them and myself.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Before I go on another trip, I'll learn more about weather, and what

conditions cause what, and be better prepared to observe what I'm

getting into, and make a decision earlier as to when to go down, or

stay down 'til another day, or 'til conditions improve.


	


I can't remember, did you get a full weather briefing from Flight 

Service before departure? If so, did they mention a turbulence AIRMET?

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:15 am Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

What does the COMM-1 PC software cover? I'm using a Mac, and most  

software is geared to PC's/IBM's, unless you're talking a DVD. I've  

got the Sporty's Recreational Course on DVD, which has a LOT of  

weather training included. This trip to Florida was going to be my  

brush up before I attempt to fly to California in late May. I guess I  

learned what I don't know...or didn't apply.

I guess I was just too rattled to think of using a slip at 9,000  

feet. I was concerned about getting it down, and I had never used a  

slip except for during landings at approx. 60 mph. I did make sure I  

got it under Va just to be sure the control surfaces weren't going to  

rip off. When the bouncing began I was right at 108mph, and slowed  

from there to a controlled descent...well, as controlled as much as I  

could.

I too find the following of chart features a game, and enjoy doing  

it. I guess I was more concerned with keeping the other plane in  

sight, and thus relied more on the GPS for direction. In hindsight,  

it would have better to not have a traveling partner, then I would  

have been left to my own resources, would have marked the chart with  

more checkpoints, made that call to FSS, and probably would have been  

told about a turbulent AIRMET...nope, no briefing...probably relying  

on the more experienced other pilot who hasn't owned his own plane in  

over 9 years, and hasn't done all that much flying lately. When I  

mentioned calling FSS and filing a flight plan, he reminded me we  

were just flying VFR...big mistake to accept that as an answer. When  

I look back on it, I've flown more hours in the past 10 months than  

he probably has in the past 4-5 years. I should have known better,  

and now I do, I hope.

Lynn

do not archive

On Apr 22, 2007, at 1:34 AM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 12:25 PM 4/21/2007, you wrote:

> I would have preferred to just go around the areas that

> required radio contact...at least until I have confidence in my radio

> manners and expertise.

 Best thing I ever did for radio work was buy and use the COMM-1 PC  

 software for VFR flight. I still use it to brush up before a big  

 cross-country. I also do preparatory cross countries before big  

 cross countries. In the preparatory I do everything I would do on  

 the long one, but do it all in one hour.

> There was no way in hades that I was going to slip at that altitude,

> or under those turbulent conditions.

 A slip would not be unsafe if you were flying at less than  

 maneuvering speed, Va, which I assume you were doing, given the  

 conditions.

> Using the charts was problematic

> at best in Kentucky, because of the wide separation between towns,

> landmarks, whatever, and also the lack of good N-S and E-W section

> lines.

 I had a good friend teach me pilotage in the wilds of Wyoming. It  

 is amazing what you can identify on a chart and how you can cross- 

 correlate that information to find your location. If you ever get a  

 chance to do a mountain check-out, make sure the instructor helps  

 you with this. You can often quite easily identify mountain  

 geometry, stream and dry beds, lakes, and man-made objects  

 sufficient to identify your location. When I flew to Ft. Worth from  

 San Diego I used pilotage exclusively until I got to west Texas,  

 where it became so flat I started to rely more on the GPS. Even  

 then I kept a close track on where I was on the chart and made it a  

 game to identify landmarks and locate them and myself.

> Before I go on another trip, I'll learn more about weather, and what

> conditions cause what, and be better prepared to observe what I'm

> getting into, and make a decision earlier as to when to go down, or

> stay down 'til another day, or 'til conditions improve.

 I can't remember, did you get a full weather briefing from Flight  

 Service before departure? If so, did they mention a turbulence AIRMET?

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Bob

Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Damascus, Maryland, USA

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:42 am Post subject: Re: My

Lynn - Sounds like you had a a great adventure, even if you didn't get to Lakeland!



Slips work, but I learned in a jump plane that if you want to come down fast, crank it over into a steep bank, relax the back pressure, and watch the airspeed.  The descents can get scary fast IF you want them to, because not as much of the wing is lifting upward.  Again, be careful of how fast the airspeed builds and keep it in the green arc.



No reason to skirt using the radio or airports with traffic.  The worst are SunNFun and Oshkosh which have lots of traffic and while I know that you'd memorized the 30+ pages of procedures, you ought to be able to use the radio.  An ATC person will be saying stuff like "Pink Avid go to XXX" and you need to realize he's talking to you, not an Avid, while two other airplanes pass so close you can see the faces of the occupants.  Even there isn't hard, it's just the difference between walking alone toward a goal versus in a crowd of strangers.  You'll be loads more relaxed if you do pattern work with other planes this summer.  Also, I don't think I've ever had a problem with a FSS on the radio, at least after getting them (contact can be tough sometimes.)

Bob

do not archive

_________________
Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

At 04:18 AM 4/22/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  What does the COMM-1 PC software cover? I'm using a Mac


	


         Comm1 is software that helps you learn radio protocol. It 

uses scenarios to teach you the content and form of a radio exchange 

on the ground and in the air. For each scenario it first teaches you 

what the radio exchange should look like, it then puts you through a 

small multiple choice test to ascertain your knowledge of content, 

and asks you to make the aircraft replies using a PC headset. You 

then assess your form by listening to yourself, and comparing with 

how the "expert" sounds. I have found the scenarios to accurately 

simulate real radio situations and have therefore benefited greatly by it.

         Happy news! I checked the website, 

http://www.comm1.com/home.html, and found that Comm1 operates on Mac 

or PC! I purchased "Comm1 VFR" since that's all I do. I can't speak 

for their other products.

         By the way I'm glad everything turned out well for you and 

that it has turned into a learning and not debilitating experience. 

As a fairly recent pilot I well remember how scary the first 

excursions out of the nest can be. I'm still learning, and still 

regularly test my heart rate.



Take care,

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:08 am Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

Thanks, Guy...wow, somebody actually made software for the  

Mac..unbelievable. I'll check it out.

By the way, I flew past Battle Creek, MI airport today (BTL), and the  

ATIS guy was reading so fast I could hardly make out when he left one  

subject and turned to another. I got curious and timed his delivery... 

11.9 seconds. His "wind" description was: one-niner-zero-zero-niner- 

zero....no "at" in the description.  I had to listen about ten times  

to get the information. I tuned in the tower frequency and there was  

no traffic to speak of. Why do they think they have to rattle off  

those numbers so damn fast that it takes multiple listenings to get  

all the numbers? Are they making an audition tape for a job at  

O'Hare? There was a guy at Jackson, MI (JXN) that was that way and  

they got so many complaints that he's no longer there....probably  

went to BTL!



Lynn

do not archive



On Apr 22, 2007, at 11:36 AM, Guy Buchanan wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 At 04:18 AM 4/22/2007, you wrote:

> What does the COMM-1 PC software cover? I'm using a Mac



         Comm1 is software that helps you learn radio protocol. It  

 uses scenarios to teach you the content and form of a radio  

 exchange on the ground and in the air. For each scenario it first  

 teaches you what the radio exchange should look like, it then puts  

 you through a small multiple choice test to ascertain your  

 knowledge of content, and asks you to make the aircraft replies  

 using a PC headset. You then assess your form by listening to  

 yourself, and comparing with how the "expert" sounds. I have found  

 the scenarios to accurately simulate real radio situations and have  

 therefore benefited greatly by it.

         Happy news! I checked the website, http://www.comm1.com/ 

 home.html, and found that Comm1 operates on Mac or PC! I purchased  

 "Comm1 VFR" since that's all I do. I can't speak for their other  

 products.

         By the way I'm glad everything turned out well for you and  

 that it has turned into a learning and not debilitating experience.  

 As a fairly recent pilot I well remember how scary the first  

 excursions out of the nest can be. I'm still learning, and still  

 regularly test my heart rate.



 Take care,

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:59 am Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

On Apr 22, 2007, at 3:25 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Later, on the return trip, I did tune into ATC frequency, so I could 

 hear first-hand the directions.


	


I think it was a wise decision, Lynn. With only 250 hours as a pilot, I 

have little advice to give anyone. But I have nearly a life time with 

the maritime GOC radio license and have been for years a keen radio 

amateur, using all kind of communications. The "fear of the microphone" 

(and the keyer when you start Morse) is quite common. You pretty 

quickly overcome it.

My advice to anyone is: Talk to ATC and fly with a flight plan for 

three reasons: safety, safety and safety. If you want, put "student" in 

the Remarks field of your flight plan. If you don't understand, say: 

"say again" as many times as needed. Radio communication courtesy says 

that no one should send faster than what is understood from the other 

side.

In Norway, English is the ATC language. Some pilots don't feel too 

comfortable with the English vocabulary. If not understanding, pilots 

are advised to talk Norwegian, or anything else that could make sure 

instructions are understood for the three above-mentioned reasons.

As a pilot, you only have to remember two things: Read-back and your 

callsign. Incidentally, I have heard a SAS training tape (actually a 

cockpit voice recording) from an approach to O'Hare. Scary! But then, 

we seldom dwell in those airspaces with our Kitfoxes.



.. Here is a good one from Rod Machado's book:

A pilot visits for the first time an airfield:

Tower: - "Do you have information Hotel?"

Pilot: - "Nah, I intend to stay with some friends!"



.. 



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:19 pm Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

Thanks for the encouragement, Bob. I'm starting to go to busier  

'ports, as of Friday. Went to a Class D on that day, and to a fairly  

busy "restaurant" airport today. Sat with a guy who used to live in  

New Mexico and he gave me some good advice about flying the western  

USA...get started early, stop early, and maybe go again later on in  

the day, if there's a stopping point maybe an hour away from there.  

He spoke of some of the winds encountered out there...so much that  

the tie down are made of cable because of the high winds and of  

course the rotting effect of the sun...boy oh boy, can hardly wait! : )

This airport that I went to was Plainwell, MI (61D) and has a 9-27  

paved, and a 1-19 turf. That's the way all airports should be in my  

estimation...make it a 9-27 if that's the main wind direction, then  

throw in another runway made of turf, so as to have a choice, but a  

less-expensive means of building it...just a thought...or what the  

heck make 'em ALL turf!

I agree about getting ahold of the FSS people...sometimes a lengthly  

wait, and part of the reason that on our recent flight we opted out  

of the info that we really needed.



Lynn

do not archive



On Apr 22, 2007, at 8:42 AM, Bob wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lynn - Sounds like you had a a great adventure, even if you didn't  

 get to Lakeland!



 Slips work, but I learned in a jump plane that if you want to come  

 down fast, crank it over into a steep bank, relax the back  

 pressure, and watch the airspeed.  The descents can get scary fast  

 IF you want them to, because not as much of the wing is lifting  

 upward.  Again, be careful of how fast the airspeed builds and keep  

 it in the green arc.



 No reason to skirt using the radio or airports with traffic.  The  

 worst are SunNFun and Oshkosh which have lots of traffic and while  

 I know that you'd memorized the 30+ pages of procedures, you ought  

 to be able to use the radio.  An ATC person will be saying stuff  

 like "Pink Avid go to XXX" and you need to realize he's talking to  

 you, not an Avid, while two other airplanes pass so close you can  

 see the faces of the occupants.  Even there isn't hard, it's just  

 the difference between walking alone toward a goal versus in a  

 crowd of strangers.  You'll be loads more relaxed if you do pattern  

 work with other planes this summer.  Also, I don't think I've ever  

 had a problem with a FSS on the radio, at least after getting them  

 (contact can be tough sometimes.)

 Bob

 do not archive



 --------

 Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108438#108438

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject: Radio practice

Lynn, I'm in the same boat when it comes to talking to ATC. I feel like my brain goes out to lunch every time I press the PTT button. One thing that has helped me tremendously is listening to actual ATC traffic on www.liveatc.net. It helped me so much that I downloaded several clips and made a CD that I can listen to on the way to work. One thing I noticed right away is that most commercial pilots do the readback a little different from the text book. Instead of starting with their tail number, they do the readback then end it with the tail number. It seems like a more natural response to me. 



Luis Rodriguez

824KF

do not archive

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

Hi Luis-

Haven't heard from you for awhile...thanks for responding.

The readback first and tail number last seems better to me too. Good  

idea on the taped/CD'd clips. Maybe I'll tape myself making calls  

until they become second nature.



Lynn

do not archve

On Apr 22, 2007, at 7:47 PM, wingnut wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lynn, I'm in the same boat when it comes to talking to ATC. I feel  

 like my brain goes out to lunch every time I press the PTT button.  

 One thing that has helped me tremendously is listening to actual  

 ATC traffic on www.liveatc.net. It helped me so much that I  

 downloaded several clips and made a CD that I can listen to on the  

 way to work. One thing I noticed right away is that most commercial  

 pilots do the readback a little different from the text book.  

 Instead of starting with their tail number, they do the readback  

 then end it with the tail number. It seems like a more natural  

 response to me.



 Luis Rodriguez

 824KF

 do not archive





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108521#108521

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: My

You understand that I wasn't taping myself?  Check out the web site I posted (www.liveatc.com). You can listen to live ATC from dozens of airports around the world being streamed over the Internet. You can even download archived broadcasts. It's some of those archived broadcasts that I burned to a CD. Nothing like hearing the pros do it.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Haven't heard from you for awhile...thanks for responding.

The readback first and tail number last seems better to me too. Good

idea on the taped/CD'd clips. Maybe I'll tape myself making calls

until they become second nature.

davef(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:50 am Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

Lynn, Good write up about your trip.



Did you know what was past that bank of clouds ?

Wx brief #1 --  then in flight you have to talk to flight sevice to get WX 

ahead .

Mic Fright ?  Well you should not be planning long X countries without being 

fully trained and comfortable with radio.



Another thing is Slips from 9k or what ever altitude. Well if you are flying 

over top and have to find a hole to come down through you should be able to 

make rapid decents in tight areas to be abel to do this.

Just my thoughts,  Good report and good learning experience for everyone.

Dave

---

xfire

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 16

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:53 am Post subject: Re: My

I made the mistake early on in my flight training to stay away from controled airspace.  I was flying in and out of a controled airport, but as soon as I hit 500' I was rolling out to the west and heading out to spot bears and moose and go fishing.  I avoided heading North into Anchorage or Merril field at all costs as I did not want to screw up on the radio and sound like an idiot.  I had a great understanding of the procedures and all, but was just to bashfull about using them.  I figured out after about 10 years that it was not so bad after all and now wish I had all the gas I burned up avoiding airspace instead of going straight through it.  I also found that I was not alone in trying to avoid the airspace so the narrow coridor between ANC airspace and the mountains was full of idiots like me.. It is a wonder that there are not anymore midairs due to that.



I am not up on sport pilot regs, but didnt you have to demonstrate radio proficiency as well as the airmanship on the check ride?

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:48 am Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

Yes, I copy that you were not taping yourself...I just took the  

process a step further, thinking that if I heard myself talking, I  

might see how I sound compared to the** liveatc** stuff and grade my  

own ability. Thanks, Luis.

And I just added this note:  I ran into my flight instructor at  

coffee just now, told him of my solo flight into JXN Class D airport,  

using the radio, and he said "We'll have to get you signed  

off...bring your log book over." Sounds like I'll be legal soon, even  

if it takes a little question and answer session.

Lynn

do not archive

On Apr 22, 2007, at 11:19 PM, wingnut wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 You understand that I wasn't taping myself?  Check out the web site  

 I posted (www.liveatc.com). You can listen to live ATC from dozens  

 of airports around the world being streamed over the Internet. You  

 can even download archived broadcasts. It's some of those archived  

 broadcasts that I burned to a CD. Nothing like hearing the pros do it.

> Haven't heard from you for awhile...thanks for responding.

> The readback first and tail number last seems better to me too. Good

> idea on the taped/CD'd clips. Maybe I'll tape myself making calls

> until they become second nature.

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108555#108555

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:02 am Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

Re "demonstrate radio proficiency as well as the airmanship on the  

check ride?"...no, I told the examiner that at the point of taking  

the checkride, my intercom was low on volume, and this caused the  

radio (which goes through the i'com) to be low on volume, and being a  

little hard of hearing, I didn't want to be examined on radio use. He  

understood...especially when my flight instructor, who is good  

friends with the examiner, told him that I was an old fart and  

couldn't hear worth a s__t, and he would sign the radio endorsement  

after I got the radio volume increased and we did the required radio  

work at towered fields. Reading between the lines this meant Brian  

(flight instructor) would yell at me, slap me around a bit, call me a  

dumb s--t and sign me off. 



The radio endorsement is an add-on to the Sport Pilot ticket, or can  

be done at the same checkride if desired.

Lynn

  do not archive

On Apr 23, 2007, at 7:53 AM, xfire wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <leonard.perry(at)acsalaska.net>



 I made thye mistake early on in my flight training to stay away  

 from controled airspace.  I was flying in and out of a controled  

 airport, but as soon as I hit 500' I was rolling out to the west  

 and heading out to spot bears and moose and go fishing.  I avoided  

 heading North into Anchorage or Merril field at all costs as I did  

 not want to screw up on the radio and sound like an idiot.  I had a  

 great understanding of the procedures and all, but was just to  

 bashfull about using them.  I figured out after about 10 years that  

 it was not so bad after all and now wish I had all the gas I burned  

 up avoiding airspace instead of going straight through it.  I also  

 found that I was not alone in trying to avoid the airspace so the  

 narrow coridor between ANC airspace and the mountains was full of  

 idiots like me.. It is a wonder that there are not anymore midairs  

 due to that.



 I am not up on sport pilot regs, but didnt you have to demonstrate  

 radio proficiency as well as the airmanship on the check ride?





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108594#108594

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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