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Balancing Carbs on a 912
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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:59 am Post subject: Balancing Carbs on a 912

| When you say mechanically sync the carbs you mean only with the 

.004 feeler gage?

 Why not take an extra 30 min. and set the sync during a run?



Especially since you are flying long hours for this flight.



| Roger Lee

Roger:



No, I didn't use a .004" feeler gauge.  I used a .030".



Probably take me longer than 30 minutes to balance the carbs with a 

vacuum system, since I do not own one.



I don't consider 5 hours to Lakeland a long flight.



I have never balanced my 912 series engines with vacuum gauges. 

Maybe, one of these days I will.  First, I have to balance my new Warp 

Drive.



How about a set of those gauges for my birthday?  



I think before I do any more adjusting to the new engine and old 

airplane, I will make the flight to Lakeland and back.  What I fly on 

the trip plus time at Lakeland should give the engine a chance to run 

in a bit, along with the new throttle cables.



Thanks for the info.  I am a three time happy graduate of the Rotax 

912 School.  Took me three times to pass it.  



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Balancing Carbs on a 912

Hi John,



I guarantee you that your carbs then are out of sync. I can send you a picture of a set of gages that you can make from an auto store for $30-$40. All you need is 2 vac. gages and, two fittings and some tubing. They will last forever and once you use it you'll find it's actually quite easy. Just takes a little time, but well worth it. It isn't good to fly with one set of cylinders fighting the other side for rpm. I'd be happy to talk you through the first one, too. This is fairly important. Your plane will be smoother with vibration.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Balancing Carbs on a 912

Hi John,



Just a thought. If you have a new engine then this sync step would be a really important process for a new engine.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: Balancing Carbs on a 912

I have a 4-set that I bought to set up my Yamahaha V-Max carbs...  Is this something that needs to be accomplished on a 2 carb. 503 too?...

  

 DVD

  

 do not archive



 

 On 4/17/07, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote: [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com  (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>



Hi John,



I guarantee you that your carbs then are out of sync. I can send you a picture of a set of gages that you can make from an auto store for $30-$40. All you need is 2 vac. gages and, two fittings and some tubing. They will last forever and once you use it you'll find it's actually quite easy. Just takes a little time, but well worth it. It isn't good to fly with one set of cylinders fighting the other side for rpm. I'd be happy to talk you through the first one, too. This is fairly important. Your plane will be smoother with vibration. 



--------

Roger Lee

Tucson, Az.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107595#107595 



[b]

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: Balancing Carbs on a 912

| I guarantee you that your carbs then are out of sync.  | Roger Lee

Roger:



Thanks for the info.



Been flying three 912's just like I am flying this one.



Would like to have a nice vacuum set up, one of these days, but for 

now I don't have time to mess with it, and don't want to spend the 

money.  Gotta buy a lot of gas to get to Lakeland, MV, Salt Lake City, 

The Rock House, and points West.  



john h

mkIII

912ULS with 15 minutes flight time.  Love it!

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Williamson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 146
Location: Arlington, TX

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Balancing Carbs on a 912

I put the first 200 hours on my 912ULS with just the mechanical carb balance out of the book. Lockwood finally sent me the Carb Synchronization Kit so I did the pneumatic synchronization by the book.



The first time took close to an hour and had to get a second person to help with the process.



When you are talking about 2 or 3 flats on an adjusting screw and nut, you notice no difference in the engine. If the sync helps with your peace of mind, by all means do it. I haven't noticed any difference in how the 912ULS runs, performs or burns fuel for the last 500 hours.



It seems that the balance tube between the intake manifolds does a very good job if you do a proper mechanical balance.

do not archive

_________________
John Williamson
Arlington, TX

Kolbra, 912ULS, 1640 hours
http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Balancing Carbs on a 912

Hi Guys,



This is really important.

The mechanical sync only gets you close and down around the idle area. When you do a mechanical sync you advance the throttle up off the idle stop. You are suppose to have the cross over tube disconnected. You can hook up your gages on the tube and the open end of the carb where the tube came off of. The cross over can only correct so much, it helps, but that's all it can do. It can't correct when carbs are off very much. You have two carbs that feed two different cylinders each. That's how the 

912 uls makes its Horse power. If one is set different from the other then each bank of cylinders (left v.s. right) fight each other. This is not a good state for any engine to be in. I would never run a new engine out of sync. It's just not good for the moving internal parts to be at war with each other.



The gage set is easy to put together (automotive store and hardware parts) and the procedure is relatively easy to do if someone talks you through it once. It might take longer if you only read the manual, but it is easier if someone explains it to you. Once you do it once or twice you can do a mechanical and pneumatic sync from start to finish in 40 min.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

worrybear(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: Balancing Carbs on a 912

---

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject: Balancing Carbs on a 912

|    Just to say, before balancing the carbs hook both gauges to a T 

and make

| sure they read the same.

|

| Dan Walter

Hi Dan:



Very, very good point.



Also, to keep in mind, our engine instruments we use on our 

ultralights and light planes are not precision.  To get wrapped around 

the axle trying to get your two or four stroke to comply with an 

instrument that is incorrectly calibrated at the factory gets you no 

where in a hurry.



john h

mkIII/912ULS (1.5 hours)

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Balancing Carbs on a 912

John,



5:36pm? And only 1.5 hours on the new engine? I guess that explains why I hadn't seen you arrive at Paradise City when i walked out around 7pm. Gonna make the flight tomorrow or are you having problems?

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

do not archive

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: Balancing Carbs on a 912

ok I am ready to see the picture of your vacume guage setup. and to make this a legal post " to use on a KOLB" Vic's if he ever gets it done "soon "

 

 Ellery in Maine 

  do not archive

**************************************

 See what's free at http://www.aol.com.  [quote][b]

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:58 am Post subject: Balancing Carbs on a 912

<< and the procedure is relatively easy to do if someone talks you

through it once.  Once you do it once or twice you can do a mechanical

and pneumatic

sync from start to finish in 40 min. Roger Lee, Tucson, Az. >>



Roger - 



Will you be at MV in May?



If you are, and if you are able to bring your pneumatic balance kit, I

bet you'd have more than a couple of 912 owners interested in watching

the process.  I for one, would volunteer my 912ul for a carb-balance

demo, if you are willing to demonstrate it!



Dennis Kirby

Mark-III, 912ul in

Cedar Crest, NM

Ed in JXN

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 122

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: Balancing Carbs on a 912

Roger/All,



        Do you balance using a Uni-Syn like I once did with my old MGB? 

(ooh, what fun!)



Ed in JXN

MkII/503



Do not archive.

---

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Balancing Carbs on a 912

Hi Guys,



Here is a picture of a simple carb balance set of gages.

Mine are liquid filled, but they don't have to be. Pick up a set of vacumm gages from Checker, Pepboys or Auto Zone for $15-$19 each. Some tubing and a couple of fittings from the hardware store and you are all set. I will be happy to talk anyone through this if you would like to call me.  520-574-1080  Roger in Tucson, Az.



Normally I would be happy to come to MV and do carb balancing for whom ever wanted one, but I have been invited to McMinnville, OR for another Fly-In the weekend before MV. Then I'm flying on up into Washington for 4 days. This will take me right up to the MV weekend.

I have people call me all the time for maint. ideas or tips on the 912 and you all are welcome to call and I will walk you through it or help in some other way.

The three big things that should be addressed on most planes is carb balance (if they have carbs), prop balance and making sure the prop blades all have the exact same pitch. These three items are not hard to accomplish. Although you usually need someone for the prop balance. The other two are very easy. I'm on other flight forums and we address these items and all understand their importance.

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_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:05 pm Post subject: Balancing Carbs on a 912

If anyone in the Houston/SE Texas area wants to balance their 912 carbs, I have a similar set up.



  -- Robert

On 4/18/07, Roger Lee < ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" < ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>



Hi Guys,



Here is a picture of a simple carb balance set of gages.

Mine are liquid filled, but they don't have to be. Pick up a set of vacumm gages from Checker, Pepboys or Auto Zone for $15-$19 each. Some tubing and a couple of fittings from the hardware store and you are all set. I will be happy to talk anyone through this if you would like to call me.  520-574-1080  Roger in Tucson, Az. 



Normally I would be happy to come to MV and do carb balancing for whom ever wanted one, but I have been invited to McMinnville, OR for another Fly-In the weekend before MV. Then I'm flying on up into Washington for 4 days. This will take me right up to the MV weekend. 

I have people call me all the time for maint. ideas or tips on the 912 and you all are welcome to call and I will walk you through it or help in some other way.

The three big things that should be addressed on most planes is carb balance (if they have carbs), prop balance and making sure the prop blades all have the exact same pitch. These three items are not hard to accomplish. Although you usually need someone for the prop balance. The other two are very easy. I'm on other flight forums and we address these items and all understand their importance. 



--------

Roger Lee

Tucson, Az.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107790#107790 



[b]

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: Balancing Carbs on a 912

Yah, despite the uncertainties and questions about the need, I believe in this 100%, Dennis.  I know for an absolute fact that my Baja Bug ran Much Better after having the dual Weber 44 IDF's on its' 2110cc engine balanced and tuned.  Fuel economy is slightly better, too, tho' I gen'rally drive with my foot on the floor.  It's sooo much fun ! ! !                  Lar. 



 On 4/18/07, Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil (Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil)> wrote: [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" < Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil (Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil)>





<< and the procedure is relatively easy to do if someone talks you

through it once.  Once you do it once or twice you can do a mechanical

and pneumatic

 sync from start to finish in 40 min. Roger Lee, Tucson, Az. >>



Roger -



Will you be at MV in May?



If you are, and if you are able to bring your pneumatic balance kit, I

bet you'd have more than a couple of 912 owners interested in watching 



[b]

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

herbgh

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:27 pm Post subject: Balancing Carbs on a 912

Roger 



 How about one gauge?  Tee the two vaccuum take off points together and

adj for Zero...?  Herb 

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:26:13 -0700 "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>

writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi Guys,

 

 Here is a picture of a simple carb balance set of gages.

 Mine are liquid filled, but they don't have to be. Pick up a set of 

 vacumm gages from Checker, Pepboys or Auto Zone for $15-$19 each. 

 Some tubing and a couple of fittings from the hardware store and you 

 are all set. I will be happy to talk anyone through this if you 

 would like to call me.  520-574-1080  Roger in Tucson, Az.

 

 Normally I would be happy to come to MV and do carb balancing for 

 whom ever wanted one, but I have been invited to McMinnville, OR for 

 another Fly-In the weekend before MV. Then I'm flying on up into 

 Washington for 4 days. This will take me right up to the MV 

 weekend.

 I have people call me all the time for maint. ideas or tips on the 

 912 and you all are welcome to call and I will walk you through it 

 or help in some other way.

 The three big things that should be addressed on most planes is carb 

 balance (if they have carbs), prop balance and making sure the prop 

 blades all have the exact same pitch. These three items are not hard 

 to accomplish. Although you usually need someone for the prop 

 balance. The other two are very easy. I'm on other flight forums and 

 we address these items and all understand their importance.

 

 --------

 Roger Lee

 Tucson, Az.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107790#107790

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/carb_sync_1501_127.jpg

terry(at)juliaswartz.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject: Balancing Carbs on a 912

How about a long loop of clear tubing with a little water inside. That is

how I tuned mine a few years ago as per Dennis's suggestion.



Terry 



--

herbgh

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:53 pm Post subject: Balancing Carbs on a 912

I think I hit the send button before I got my mind in gear.. One gauge

won't work as I described it.. One gauge should work other wise.. one

side at a time. Watch the tach.   Herb 



 

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:36:03 -0400 "Terry Swartz" <terry(at)juliaswartz.com>

writes:

[quote] 

 <terry(at)juliaswartz.com>

 

 How about a long loop of clear tubing with a little water inside. 

 That is

 how I tuned mine a few years ago as per Dennis's suggestion.

 

 Terry 

 

 --

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Balancing Carbs on a 912

Hi Guys,



You need two gages because you need to compare the two at the same time so you can set the needles to the same on both. Makes your life a 100% easier.

A water column type gage will work provided that everything is 100%equal on both sides. The water column works it's just a crude way to do it. If you are off on one side or the other then you will not be able to balance the carbs. Why go through the trouble of trying to make everything that precise when you can pick up a gage for $15 and be done with it?

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

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