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d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
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 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject: Handheld radio, and VOR vs GPS |
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Something I've been wondering about...
When I learned to fly (too) long ago, GPS didn't exist; VOR (and even ADF
in a well equipped plane) were the standard. Not having flown a radio
equipped plane since the mid 1980's, I'm out of touch... now that GPS is
ubiquitous, does anybody even use VOR any more? Seems the pocket GPS I use
for backpacking is far more useful than VOR/DME (forget about ILS since to
me the "R" in IFR stands only for "roads").
I ask because now that I have a Kolb I want to buy a handheld radio,
probably the Icom A6, and I'm wondering if there's any reason spend the
extra money for the VOR functions in the A24. (Actually some friends are
probably buying it for me for designing the winning (and U.S. distance
record setting!) plane from the last Red Bull Flugtag.)
I'm open to other radio suggestions too, but I like the Icom for the small
size, an advantage if I want to use it while flying my PPG too.
-Dana
do not archive
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--
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
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Steven Green
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject: Handheld radio, and VOR vs GPS |
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Dana,
I have a Yaesu handheld with VOR reciever and it isn't very precise. It
swings around a lot unless you are very close to the station. An external
antenna might help, I am using the radio mounted antenna.
Steven Green
---
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Steven Green |
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icrashrc
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:19 am Post subject: Re: Handheld radio, and VOR vs GPS |
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I bought the A24 because it had VOR in it. I haven't even unboxed the unit yet so i have no idea how well it works. I just thought VOR would be a good backup to moving map GPS.
| d-m-hague(at)comcast.net wrote: | Something I've been wondering about...
When I learned to fly (too) long ago, GPS didn't exist; VOR (and even ADF
in a well equipped plane) were the standard. Not having flown a radio
equipped plane since the mid 1980's, I'm out of touch... now that GPS is
ubiquitous, does anybody even use VOR any more? Seems the pocket GPS I use
for backpacking is far more useful than VOR/DME (forget about ILS since to
me the "R" in IFR stands only for "roads").
I ask because now that I have a Kolb I want to buy a handheld radio,
probably the Icom A6, and I'm wondering if there's any reason spend the
extra money for the VOR functions in the A24. (Actually some friends are
probably buying it for me for designing the winning (and U.S. distance
record setting!) plane from the last Red Bull Flugtag.)
I'm open to other radio suggestions too, but I like the Icom for the small
size, an advantage if I want to use it while flying my PPG too.
-Dana
do not archive
--
--
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. |
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:18 am Post subject: Handheld radio, and VOR vs GPS |
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Dana,
I had a Lowrance 100 GPS that failed on a long(1200 mile) x-country
flight some time ago. As a back up, I keep a Sporty's NAV/COM hand held
radio w/ VOR function in the airplane. It saved the day. Now using a
Lowrance 2000C which is great, but I still keep the Sporty's NAV/COM
handy. At least once a year I force myself to fly a 200+ mile long 3
point course using nothing but a sectional, compass, and watch. I do
not want to loose those skills I acquired back in the 60s, when they
were required.
Most of the older GA airplanes still have VOR and are the primary NAV
device. Some have updated been with old style GPS or Lorans in the
them. Most of the new big buck GA aircraft have at least one very
expensive Garmin panel GPS. I think within 10 years the VORs will be
used very little but that is just a guess. Eventually, the FAA will
stop maintaining them and they will go away by attrition, like the NDBs
are doing today. The last airplane I had with an ADF, I found it nearly
useless, as about 2/3rds of the NDBs I tried to use were out of
service.
Thom in Buffalo
do not archive
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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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Russ Kinne
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 182
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:55 am Post subject: Handheld radio, and VOR vs GPS |
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About ADF's - most convenient for listening to music or the ball game
on commercial radio stations. Also very easy to track to them . I
have an old book that listed freq, power & location of a thousand
radio broadcast stations in the US. Used them much more often than
NDB's. In Canada there are so few VOR's that an ADF is much more
useful. The ADF system may be an oldie but it's a goodie! And much
better range than the VOR's.
Russ in CT
On Apr 28, 2007, at 8:18 AM, Thom Riddle wrote:
| Quote: |
Dana,
I had a Lowrance 100 GPS that failed on a long(1200 mile) x-country
flight some time ago. As a back up, I keep a Sporty's NAV/COM hand
held radio w/ VOR function in the airplane. It saved the day. Now
using a Lowrance 2000C which is great, but I still keep the
Sporty's NAV/COM handy. At least once a year I force myself to fly
a 200+ mile long 3 point course using nothing but a sectional,
compass, and watch. I do not want to loose those skills I acquired
back in the 60s, when they were required.
Most of the older GA airplanes still have VOR and are the primary
NAV device. Some have updated been with old style GPS or Lorans in
the them. Most of the new big buck GA aircraft have at least one
very expensive Garmin panel GPS. I think within 10 years the VORs
will be used very little but that is just a guess. Eventually, the
FAA will stop maintaining them and they will go away by attrition,
like the NDBs are doing today. The last airplane I had with an ADF,
I found it nearly useless, as about 2/3rds of the NDBs I tried to
use were out of service.
Thom in Buffalo
do not archive
|
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d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:55 am Post subject: Handheld radio, and VOR vs GPS |
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At 08:18 AM 4/28/2007, Thom Riddle wrote:
| Quote: | ...At least once a year I force myself to fly a 200+ mile long 3 point
course using nothing but a sectional, compass, and watch. I do not want to
loose those skills I acquired back in the 60s, when they were required...
|
They're not still required? =shocked=
| Quote: | ...they will go away by attrition, like the NDBs are doing today. The last
airplane I had with an ADF, I found it nearly useless, as about 2/3rds of
the NDBs I tried to use were out of service...
|
Back in the 1970's, I always tried to rent a plane with an ADF, as I found
it quite useful... to listen to music while flying. Of course, back then
AM radio was still mostly music, instead of talk show drivel. I still have
a vivid memory of flying a rented C-172 about 9,000' directly over the St.
Louis TCA while listening to "Sounds of Silence" on the ADF... and snapping
a picture of an F-4 Phantom a few thousand feet below me.
-Dana
do not archive
--
--
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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jimhefner
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 91
Location: Tucson, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:21 am Post subject: Re: Handheld radio, and VOR vs GPS |
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I believe the VOR network will be around a long time.... longer than me. There are too many old GA airplanes out there for them to go away. GPS is great (far superior) but to purchase a panel mount certified GPS system for a 60's vintage plane would be prohibitive to most people flying these old planes.... like me! I carry my trusty old GPSIII Pilot on the dash. It is great for reference to airspace boundaries, ground speed, approx altitude and a ton of other good things to know. It gives similar nav tracking info to the VOR, but gives it directly to any defined point, including user defined points. VOR can't come close to that and triangulation from sectionals while flying solo is not easy. For me, now that I'm finished with training, the VOR will be my backup system. For my flight to MV I plan to use both systems, one to cross check against the other. I also have several waypoints defined for pilotage and dead reckoning along the way. My GPSIII is plugged into a cigarette lighter socket in the dash, so battery failure is not a concern, but the unit can fail like any electrical device, so having multiple backup's a smart plan for any pilot in any kind of plane.
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Jim Hefner
Tucson, AZ
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