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582 Exhaust Ball Joints

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Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints

All,

         I'm looking for good ideas on how to seal the 582 exhaust 

ball joints. I've used copper anti-seize in the past but it just 

blows out. (My joints don't fit very well for some reason.) Today I 

re-worked the joints to fit better but I thought there might be some 

good ideas out there as to how to seal them while leaving them 

flexible. (I had an idea of brazing them together, then knocking out 

the male piece, leaving a perfect fitting bronze bushing, but I 

haven't tried it yet.)

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints

Guy,

    Just out of curiosity, what makes you think they are not sealing good 

enough?



Don Smythe

Classic IV w/582

Newport News, Va.



Do Not Archive

---

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints

At 05:55 PM 4/24/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		      Just out of curiosity, what makes you think they are not sealing 

 good enough?


	


I tore the exhaust system apart today to have it re-coated and found 

the manifold / elbow joint had two areas that were clearly blowing. 

They had yellow deposits, (the same as inside the manifold,) running 

through the joint. I did a lot of work today and improved the mating 

significantly, but would like it to seal, if possible.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:13 am Post subject: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints

Guy, back when I had my 582 I had a similar problem.  Using anti seize just

made a big mess as the stuff blew all over everything.  I finally got fed up

with it, pulled the two units off, and worked the two parts together with

valve grinding compound for about 30 minutes.  I kept at it until I was sure

I was getting full contact on the two parts.  Then I applied a thin coat of

anti seize.  After that it was much better but not perfect, something I'm

not sure you'll ever achieve with that sort of setup.

Deke Morisse

K5/Soob/CAP

NE Michigan



---

davef(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:51 am Post subject: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints

Deke and Guy ,



That sounds like a good solution.  I must be lucky as I use never-seize and 

really once it sets -sort of- it is fine.   I know if the ball and socket do 

not seat properly  they will leak.  I have fixed them before on sleds with a 

75% success rate but if they  do not fit perfect  you might be better to get 

new parts   That being said, perhaps a new elbow  would help -they run about 

150$ from Rotax.  Y pipe and muffler each are more.

Is it possible that the mating surfaces are dented, out of round not seating 

?



Also is there exhaust leakage or oil drips ?  I find that the Exhaust 

Manifold Gaskets will make more of a mess if your cylinders were not aligned 

or  manifold it not true to cylinders.



Dave

---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints

Just as an idea... I haven't had to do this.



When you put your joint together use the "Never-Sieze" and then pack the

joint with fibre glass chord that they use for sealing the doors on wood

stoves.  This stuff looks like woven rope but is mad of fibre glass if

nothing else it should keep the "Never-Sieze" from making too much of a mess

on your engine.  Ships for hundreds of years used a similar device called

oakum to keep the ocean out... Think of the chord as oakum for your exhaust.



It might just work for you and the stuff is CHEAP, which is why I would give

it a try.



Noel Loveys, RPP 

Campbellton, Newfoundland, Canada

Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

Aerocet 1100s

noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca

 

[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

olendorf

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Schenectady, NY USA

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: Re: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints

I coat the ball joints with the high temp silicone sealant that is used on the exhaust springs.  It makes the joint air tight and stays flexible.  It keeps the parts from grinding together too.

_________________
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints

At 07:45 AM 4/27/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I coat the ball joints with the high temp silicone sealant that is 

used on the exhaust springs.  It makes the joint air tight and stays 

flexible.  It keeps the parts from grinding together too.


	


Hi Scott,

         What sealant are you using? I didn't think any of them were 

good to 1200F. Then again, maybe I don't need 1200F protection there.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

olendorf

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Schenectady, NY USA

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:47 am Post subject: Re: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints

here it is:



ULTRA COPPER Hi-Temp RTV Silicone Gasket Maker

PERMATEX 81878



Temperature range -75F to 700F intermittent; resists auto and shop fluids and vibration.

 

Suggested Applications:

Exhaust manifolds/headers, valve covers, oil pans, timing covers, water pumps, thermostat housings 



I know it says 700F but it works fine.  I've been doing this for many years and probably 350 hours.

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_________________
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:23 am Post subject: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints

At 08:47 AM 4/27/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I know it says 700F but it works fine.  I've been doing this for 

many years and probably 350 hours.


	


Very cool. I'll try it. Thanks.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.



Do not archive

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:31 am Post subject: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints

I use a  muffler cement to help slide my Jabiru's exhaust pipes into  

the muffler. It acts like a lubricant, then when dried, as a sealer.  

These are straight pipes into straight pipe stubs in the muffler. The  

stuff I got from Performance Automotive is made by Yale Automotive in  

Hampshire, Illinois. 847-683-3388 (this info from the tube)

Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/250+ hrs

do not archive

On Apr 27, 2007, at 12:22 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 08:47 AM 4/27/2007, you wrote:

> I know it says 700F but it works fine.  I've been doing this for  

> many years and probably 350 hours.

 Very cool. I'll try it. Thanks.

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:10 pm Post subject: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints

I used to use furnace cement, looks the same, smells the same and gets just

as hard but is a lot cheaper.  Sorry guys there seems to be a theme emerging

to my latest posts.  I used the furnace cement when I was a poor student.

Still poor,  just temporarily gave up the study thingy.



The thing is both the muffler cement and the furnace first cousin get very

hard and won't allow any flex in the joints....  You may as well just weld

the parts together.



Packing the joints the hi-temp RTV or "Modified Oakum" Glass or asbestos

chord will allow the joints to flex as they have to.  I was just thinking,

if you gave the inside of the elbow/pipes a thin coat of muffler cement it

could act the same as ceramic shielding on the inside of the pipes and

actually keep heat away from various parts.



Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern

Campbellton, Newfoundland, Canada

Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

Aerocet 1100s

noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca

 

[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

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