Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - GPS and new technologies

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

GPS and new technologies

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject: GPS and new technologies

Dana, and all others,



   Regarding GPS, if you do anything more than your local flights, I can't 

imagine not having a GPS with you.   I am now on my second GPS, a Garmin 

296.   (My first GPS was a Garmin 95XL, which made me think flight planning 

and navigation couldn't get any better.  I was wrong.  Wow, what a 

difference a few years make in electronics!!!

   First, just about everything you need to know is right in your hand.   

Airspeed, altitude, and a visual of exactly where you are above the ground.  

I found the "B Class Airspace" boundaries especially useful on my recent 

800+ mile cross country.  The "pointing arrow" function on the 296 is also 

very cool.   You push a toggle to send the pointing arrow across your 

screen, and when it lands on whatever you want, a window pops up and 

displays the information; like airport identifier, and so forth.

   For my experience, I wouldn't leave home without it!!!



   Now, with all that wonderful stuff having been said about GPS's, the most 

important aspect of cross country navigation is YOUR piloting skills.  A GPS 

can fail.  ( It happened to me during severe turbulence for a few 

minutes...kind of skeerd me!)   If you fly out of your normal flight routine 

and into new frontiers, i.e....cross country, the most important thing you 

need is a compass, a watch, and a chart (sectional).  And tons of flight 

planning, alternate routes, etc.   A good pilot will provide for himself ALL 

(within reason) the available tools he can to completely finish the intended 

flight.  And this includes all aspects of "dead reckoning".   A GPS is 

awesome, but don't make it your only source of navigation.



   If Hansel and Grettel had a GPS, I doubt VERY seriously they would have 

relied on the bread crumbs!!!   They shoulda had a compass and a watch, too.



                           Kolbs rule!!  (To make this a legal post)



                                  Mike in SW Somewhere      18.3 miles North 

of the Arizona border, 14.76 miles east of the Nevada border



_________________________________________________________________

Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:36 pm Post subject: GPS and new technologies

At 08:09 PM 4/27/2007, Mike Welch wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		     Regarding GPS, if you do anything more than your local flights, I can't 

 imagine not having a GPS with you.... I wouldn't leave home without it!!!



   Now, with all that wonderful stuff having been said about GPS's, the 

 most important aspect of cross country navigation is YOUR piloting 

 skills.  A GPS can fail.... If you fly out of your normal flight routine 

 and into new frontiers, i.e....cross country, the most important thing 

 you need is a compass, a watch, and a chart...


	


I'm not questioning the value of GPS, which is a valuable tool... though 

when I had my T-Craft I thought nothing of 1000 mile XC flights with 

nothing electrical in the plane but the magnetos, and that still wouldn't 

bother me today.  Flew once from St. Louis to upstate NY in a Tri-Pacer 

with not only no electrical system (well, it had one but it wasn't working) 

but no compass (actually it had one of them too, but it wasn't working 

either).  Estimated our heading by the section lines across the midwest, 

then from PA on it was all pilotage... got dicey a few times when the 

clouds approached the mountain tops and the visibility got marginal... then 

another time there was that one XC formation flight when each of us thought 

the *other* guy had the chart... but I digress.  I guess the original 

question basically came down to "is there any reason to spend extra money 

for a radio with VOR in the era of GPS?"



                                 -Dana

do not archive



--

--

My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.

George Alexander

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: GPS and new technologies

Mike:



Airspeed on a hand held GPS???? 



 	  mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co wrote: 	
		  Dana, and all others,



<<<<SNIP>>>>



I am now on my second GPS, a Garmin 296. 



<<<<<SNIP>>>>>  



First, just about everything you need to know is right in your hand.   

Airspeed, altitude, and a visual of exactly where you are above the ground.  



<<<<SNIP>>>>



Mike in SW Somewhere      18.3 miles North 

of the Arizona border, 14.76 miles east of the Nevada border

_________________
George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:14 pm Post subject: GPS and new technologies

Dana,

Oh yeah, sorry, I didn't actually answer your question.  In addition to 

wanting to finish my Kolb very soon,  (Recall everyone, I am building a shop 

in my backyard for my airplanes.) I am also hoping to get back to finishing 

my GlaStar.

   My GlaStar is most likely going to spend more time doing x/c flights than 

the Kolb.   And I have spent over $30,000 in just the panel.  (Blue Mountain 

EFIS One, Dynon D10A, Garmin296, total Narco radio stack, Electronics Int'l 

MVP-50 and more.)  And with all this new GPS stuff, which I am a firm 

believer in, ......even still, I elected to install a VOR in the GlaStar.

VOR radials are an incredible value to keep you pointed where you want to 

end up.  So, in answering your question, yes, I would recommend a VOR radio, 

providing your plane has the room and so forth.              Mike in "68 

degree Las Vegas radial (from)"

Do not archive

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: GPS and new technologies

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:32:04 -0400

At 08:09 PM 4/27/2007, Mike Welch wrote:

>   Regarding GPS, if you do anything more than your local flights, I can't 

>imagine not having a GPS with you.... I wouldn't leave home without it!!!

>

>   Now, with all that wonderful stuff having been said about GPS's, the 

>most important aspect of cross country navigation is YOUR piloting skills. 

>  A GPS can fail.... If you fly out of your normal flight routine and into 

>new frontiers, i.e....cross country, the most important thing you need is 

>a compass, a watch, and a chart...

I'm not questioning the value of GPS, which is a valuable tool... though 

when I had my T-Craft I thought nothing of 1000 mile XC flights with 

nothing electrical in the plane but the magnetos, and that still wouldn't 

bother me today.  Flew once from St. Louis to upstate NY in a Tri-Pacer 

with not only no electrical system (well, it had one but it wasn't working) 

but no compass (actually it had one of them too, but it wasn't working 

either).  Estimated our heading by the section lines across the midwest, 

then from PA on it was all pilotage... got dicey a few times when the 

clouds approached the mountain tops and the visibility got marginal... then 

another time there was that one XC formation flight when each of us thought 

the *other* guy had the chart... but I digress.  I guess the original 

question basically came down to "is there any reason to spend extra money 

for a radio with VOR in the era of GPS?"

                                 -Dana

do not archive

--

--

My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.

_________________________________________________________________

Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:18 pm Post subject: GPS and new technologies

Picky, picky, picky.  

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "George Alexander" <gtalexander(at)att.net>

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: GPS and new technologies

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:38:39 -0700






Mike:



Airspeed on a hand held GPS????





mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co wrote:

 > Dana, and all others,

 >

 >

 >

 > I am now on my second GPS, a Garmin 296.

 >

 >

 >

 > First, just about everything you need to know is right in your hand.

 > Airspeed, altitude, and a visual of exactly where you are above the 

ground.

 >

 >

 >

 > Mike in SW Somewhere      18.3 miles North

 > of the Arizona border, 14.76 miles east of the Nevada border

 >

 >

--------

George Alexander

http://gtalexander.home.att.net





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109639#109639






	


_________________________________________________________________

MSN is giving away a trip to Vegas to see Elton John.  Enter to win today. 

http://msnconcertcontest.com?icid-nceltontagline

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: GPS and new technologies

I guess the original

 	  Quote: 	
		   question basically came down to "is there any reason to spend extra money 

 for a radio with VOR in the era of GPS?"



                                 -Dana

 do not archive



  I guess if you are going to be doing a lot of xcountries to different 
	


airports it might be handy for a last ditch back up. I had the same choice 

when I bought my ICOM and elected to do without. I have not ever been sorry. 

For the type of flying I do most of the time it would be worthless. Perhaps 

if I had something that went a lot faster than my Kolb it might have some 

value. The flight instructor that I had when I was flying a 150 didn't even 

bother to teach it any more. I think that I will stick with sectionals and 

my 196.

Larry, Oregon

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:17 am Post subject: GPS and new technologies

At 01:17 AM 4/28/2007, Larry Cottrell wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    I guess if you are going to be doing a lot of xcountries to different 

 airports it might be handy for a last ditch back up....


	


Lots of XC's in an Ultrastar? 



                                 -Dana



--

--

My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:37 am Post subject: GPS and new technologies

At 09:14 PM 4/27/2007, Mike Welch wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  VOR radials are an incredible value to keep you pointed where you want to 

end up.  So, in answering your question, yes, I would recommend a VOR 

radio, providing your plane has the room and so forth...


	


"Room"???  I can't resist, attached is a picture of my "panel".  Plenty of 

room for a modern radio stack eh?  



Actually there is room, since the handheld with VOR is exactly the same 

size as the one without.  But... functionally, I can't see much difference 

between following a VOR radial vs. following a GPS course, except that you 

can define a GPS course from anywhere to anywhere.



                                 -Dana



P.S.  Believe it or not, the previous owners had a radar altimeter on the 

bracket you can see above the instrument pod.  Really!  Well, sort of.  One 

of the guys (who never flew the US) had trouble judging the landing flare 

while flying dual in a Quick MX, so they bought one of those radar rangers 

made for garages (green, yellow, and red lights to judge your distance to 

the wall in a garage) and mounted it in the plane, with the sensor pointed 

straight down.  Yellow light means it's time to flare, I guess... dunno how 

it really worked.



do not archive



--

--

My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.

Panel01132.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

53.68 KB

Viewed:

309 Time(s)

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:30 am Post subject: GPS and new technologies

I learned to use the VOR system when I learned to fly in '94, and used it for real when navigating a Cessna 172 from Port Angeles, WA to Weippe, ID, (70 miles E of Lewiston, ID) a trip of close to 500 miles.  I found that the VOR's only work well when you're at altitude, and then only the closer ones were dependable.  I mostly flew at 1,000 - 2,500 ft AGL on that trip, and *sometimes* the VOR worked, but I quickly learned to listen VEry closely to the Morse Code identifier for each station.  There's only a limited number of frequencies available to them, and you need to be very sure exactly which station you're tracking.  My girlfriend was with me, and I showed her how to use the system to help keep her interested.  (central and eastern WA state is booooring)  I think I still have that old sectional somewhere.  It's got pencil lines going every which way that she drew while trying to figure it out.  What Fun ! ! !                   Lar. 



 On 4/27/07, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com (lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com)> wrote: [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" < lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com (lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com)>



I guess the original

 	  Quote: 	
		   question basically came down to "is there any reason to spend extra money

 for a radio with VOR in the era of GPS?"



                                 -Dana 

 do not archive



I guess if you are going to be doing a lot of xcountries to different
	


airports it might be handy for a last ditch back up. I had the same choice

when I bought my ICOM and elected to do without. I have not ever been sorry. 

For the type of flying I do most of the time it would be worthless. Perhaps

if I had something that went a lot faster than my Kolb it might have some

value. The flight instructor that I had when I was flying a 150 didn't even 

bother to teach it any more. I think that I will stick with sectionals - The Kolb-List Email Forum - h more: sp;      - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =   --> http://forum===================

 

[b]

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:59 am Post subject: GPS and new technologies

Morning Gang:



James Tripp, FSII, and I, mkIII, flew 400 miles yesterday.  We made it 

to Tuscaloosa, AL, and back with our trusty GPS's.  Ground speed was 

from 45 mph flying NW to 105 flying SE.  Airspeed was 65 mph.



We flew over to the University of Alabama to show our airplanes to the 

AF ROTC students.  Was a beautiful flight.



I landed at Centerville, AL, to make a phone call.  When I taxiied up 

to the hanger row, I saw a FSII.  A few minutes later the owner drove 

up.  He was surprised we were flying in "all that wind".  ???  Said he 

never flew after 0900 because of winds.  I told him to get more time 

in his bird and he would be more comfortable with the wind.  Said he 

had 60 hours, but did not like getting knocked around.



Don't reckon we would ever get anywhere if we did not fly in the wind.



I've been flying with GPS since 1993, when I bought my first, a Garmin 

55AVD.  I did the 1994 Alaska flight with it.  Did the 2001 flight to 

Barrow, AK, with a 95XL, and the 48 day flight to Alaska in 2004 was 

completed with the aid of my Garmin 196.  The 196 now has "obstruction 

clearance" which is a plus for me.  That is where I fly the most.



I also use the 196 for land travel, and when I get a new boat will use 

it for marine as well.



Take care,



john h

mkIII

912ULS 17.0 hours

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: GPS and new technologies

A VOR is a waste of space and money.   A GPS will do 10 times what a VOR will do and do it better, more reliably, and cheaper.



If you must have a back up your GPS, you would be better off to back it up with a second GPS.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Ed in JXN

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 122

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:01 am Post subject: GPS and new technologies

Hi Lar,

  

         You're  correct about having enough altitude when using VORs.  I've always found  '10 miles per one thousand feet' works in the flatlands, and higher for  mountainous areas.  It's that line-of sight thing.

  

 Ed in JXN

 MkII/503

  

  

 [quote]   ---

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum