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BiAnnual Flight Review - POH

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dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:09 pm Post subject: BiAnnual Flight Review - POH

I need to get a bi-annual flight review, do I need to have a POH for my 

plane?

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: BiAnnual Flight Review - POH

No...



--

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

John Williamson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 146
Location: Arlington, TX

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: BiAnnual Flight Review - POH

It's real easy to give a simple "No". 



What is your reference for that answer?

_________________
John Williamson
Arlington, TX

Kolbra, 912ULS, 1640 hours
http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 3:10 am Post subject: Re: BiAnnual Flight Review - POH

dhkey,



Since a CFI must fly with the pilot taking the BFR he has the right (not obligation) to inspect the required aircraft paperwork. The old ARrOW acronym is an easy way to remember what paperwork is required to be legal.



A - Airworthiness certificate

R- Registration

r - Radio station license (no longer required)

O - Operator's manual (POH) for type certificated aircraft

-----or----- Operating limitations for experimental and LSAs

W - Weight and balance data



John W - You tend to be the best informed on regulations, please correct me if I am wrong on this.



Thom in Buffalo

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 8:39 am Post subject: BiAnnual Flight Review - POH

Thom...



I'm not John W., but I know a little about this and you are correct...



The "O" may be a Pilot's Operating Handbook, or an aircraft flight manual, depending on what the Type Certificate requires...  You are also correct that an experimental has Operating Limitations, attached to the Airworthiness Certificate, instead... 



DVD



do not archive

On 5/5/07, Thom Riddle <thomriddle(at)adelphia.net (thomriddle(at)adelphia.net)> wrote: [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" < thomriddle(at)adelphia.net (thomriddle(at)adelphia.net)>



dhkey,



Since a CFI must fly with the pilot taking the BFR he has the right (not obligation) to inspect the required aircraft paperwork. The old ARrOW acronym is an easy way to remember what paperwork is required to be legal. 



A - Airworthiness certificate

R- Registration

r - Radio station license (no longer required)

O - Operator's manual (POH) for type certificated aircraft

-----or----- Operating limitations for experimental and LSAs 

W - Weight and balance data



John W - You tend to be the best informed on regulations, please correct me if I am wrong on this.



Thom in Buffalo

[b]

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 10:40 am Post subject: BiAnnual Flight Review - POH

Yea, it's the "O" I was having problems with. I think I'll just do it in a 

172 or a 182 and keep it simple for everyone. I still  need to address the 

"O".

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Thom Riddle" <thomriddle(at)adelphia.net>

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: BiAnnual Flight Review - POH

Date: Sat,  5 May 2007 04:10:39 -0700






dhkey,



Since a CFI must fly with the pilot taking the BFR he has the right (not 

obligation) to inspect the required aircraft paperwork. The old ARrOW 

acronym is an easy way to remember what paperwork is required to be legal.



A - Airworthiness certificate

R- Registration

r - Radio station license (no longer required)

O - Operator's manual (POH) for type certificated aircraft

-----or----- Operating limitations for experimental and LSAs

W - Weight and balance data



John W - You tend to be the best informed on regulations, please correct me 

if I am wrong on this.



Thom in Buffalo





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110954#110954

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:58 am Post subject: Re: BiAnnual Flight Review - POH

dhkey,



How did you get an special/experimental airworthiness certificate without Operating Limitations? I've never heard of one being issued without this. Did the inspector drop the ball? If you do have the Op Limits, then that satisfies the O part of ARrOW. You need a POH only if it is type certificated like Cessnas or an Operators Manual if it is a factory built S-LSA.



Thom in Buffalo

do not archive

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject: BiAnnual Flight Review - POH

Airworthiness certificates for Experimental, Restricted, Limited, etc. (not Standard) prior to sometime in the '80s didn't have operating limitations...  The block on the airworthiness certificate that now references the operating limitations used to only reference a FAR...  Apparently it made too much sense, so they changed it...   



DVD



do not archive

On 5/5/07, Thom Riddle <thomriddle(at)adelphia.net (thomriddle(at)adelphia.net)> wrote: [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" < thomriddle(at)adelphia.net (thomriddle(at)adelphia.net)>



dhkey,



How did you get an special/experimental airworthiness certificate without Operating Limitations? I've never heard of one being issued without this. Did the inspector drop the ball? If you do have the Op Limits, then that satisfies the O part of ARrOW. You need a POH only if it is type certificated like Cessnas or an Operators Manual if it is a factory built S-LSA. 



Thom in Buffalo

do not archive



[b]

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 6:11 pm Post subject: BiAnnual Flight Review - POH

Is it enough to mark the operating limitations on the instruments or do I 

need a piece of paper with them on it? Are there some operating limitations 

that can't be marked on the instruments?



 	  Quote: 	
		  How did you get an special/experimental airworthiness certificate without 

Operating Limitations? I've never heard of one being issued without this. 

Did the inspector drop the ball? If you do have the Op Limits,

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 3:16 am Post subject: Re: BiAnnual Flight Review - POH

dhkey,



Operating limitations are typically a lot of words. The ones on our Allegro, for example, are two pages long. So you will see what I'm talking about, I'm attaching a copy of ours. Note that the first loaded last and vice versa.



Although these are specific for each airplane, the verbiage is much the same but not identical on many of them. So in answer to your question about putting them on the instrument panel, in a word, no. They won't typically fit and the FEDs are going to be looking for a "document" if you get ramp checked. Non-conformance to their expectations is an invitation for citation since they are not known, as a species, to be creative  or individuralistic thinkers.

Thom in Buffalo

op_lim_2.PDF

Description:

Download

Filename:

op_lim_2.PDF

Filesize:

22.77 KB

Downloaded:

454 Time(s)

op_lim_1.PDF

Description:

Download

Filename:

op_lim_1.PDF

Filesize:

21.21 KB

Downloaded:

416 Time(s)

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 4:54 am Post subject: BiAnnual Flight Review - POH

Opps, I got one of those it says I can't fly more than a certian distance 

until I fly off my time and I got night VFR put in it.



Well as long as I don't need something like a POH im fine.



Thanks



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