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Brakes little to none

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pilotpat

Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Williamsport, PA

Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: Brakes little to none

I have little to no brakes now. pumped in fluid from bottom up twice till overflowed and still very weak.  any suggestions on problem



Also forgot to mention a while back that N821PK had 1st flight on April 10 2007



do not archive

_________________
Pilotpat
Kitfox Classic IV
Jabiru 2200
Williamsport , PA

kitfoxpilot(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject: Brakes little to none

First, what do you have for master cylinders?  you may need to rebuild them, 

I have Matco and I also have had simular problems.



Ray

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "pilotpat" <pkelly20(at)comcast.net>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Brakes little to none

Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:56:22 -0700






I have little to no brakes now. pumped in fluid from bottom up twice till 

overflowed and still very weak.  any suggestions on problem



Also forgot to mention a while back that N821PK had 1st flight on April 10 

2007



do not archive



--------

Pilotpat





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112829#112829






	


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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: Brakes little to none

Just filling them SHOULD be enough, but the bottom line is to be sure  

there are no air bubbles in the lines...this is what causes the  

weakness, in my opinion. If you ever run out of fluid while pumping,  

you have just pumped in some air and will have to start pumping  

again. Do you have clear/translucent lines? The bubbles will be white  

and the fluid red, so it should be easy to tell where the air is. As  

far as the overflowing goes, just stop pumping and check  

occasionally, and if getting too full draw some fluid out of the  

reservoir with a syringe. I have an oil can that I use for filling my  

system, and when I have pumped in about 45 squirts, it is time to  

dump the reservoir, load up the oil can and go at it again. And every  

time you take the flex hose off the bleeder nipple (if you ever have  

to), make sure that when it goes back on, there is no air...only  

fluid...at the end of the hose, or you will be putting that air into  

the system. From that standpoint, using as large a pumper as you can  

find, will eliminate that problem.

One more thing...if you can see the entire brake line circuit when  

you are pumping the fluid into the bleeder nipple, you will be able  

to tell when the system is free of any bubbles. And don't forget that  

when a bubble disappears into the master cylinders, that's not the  

end of your job. It must leave the master cylinder and continue it's  

way up to the reservoir before it will return to the atmosphere and  

leave you with a "solid" hydraulic system.

The preceding assumes that you have the Cleveland cylinders which  

utilize the single separate fluid reservoir. I don't know anything  

about the master cylinders with the integrated reservoirs.



Do you have dual  brakes?



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/275+ hrs



On May 14, 2007, at 7:56 PM, pilotpat wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I have little to no brakes now. pumped in fluid from bottom up  

 twice till overflowed and still very weak.  any suggestions on problem



 Also forgot to mention a while back that N821PK had 1st flight on  

 April 10 2007

 --------

 Pilotpat

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: Brakes little to none

Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.

[url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48246/*http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/;_ylc=X3oDMTE5cDF2bXZzBF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDZ3JlZW4tY2VudGVy]Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.[/url] [quote][b]

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 4:23 am Post subject: Re: Brakes little to none

Is the problem soft peddles or do the brakes just not hold well?  New brake pads need to broken in by applying a little pressure to them while  taxing.  I can't remember the specifics so maybe someone can help here.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

barry(at)pgtc.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: Brakes little to none

Tom, if your Kitfox is a taildragger you might not want too much brakes.  My 

brakes won't hold for a mag check, I have to do it on the run, but I am less 

worried about going over on the nose.



Barry West

---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: Brakes little to none

Lynn that is the most efficient way to bleed any  brake system including those with integrated  reservoirs.

 

[img]cid:919195102(at)16052007-2D1A[/img]  

 Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern

 Campbellton, Newfoundland, 

 Canada

 Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

 Aerocet 1100s

 noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)

 

 

 Do not archive

 

  

 



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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

pilotpat

Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Williamsport, PA

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Brakes little to none

thanks guys for the help,  and sorry for not getting back to some of you as I had to go out of town right after I posted the question and just now getting back to it.   going to try bleeding again this weekend.  



they are matco and they are just weak. but I think there is air in there and will follow some of the recommendations...



some asked......I have a kitfox classic iv with a 2200 jabiru  and in the williamsport , pa area....will see if i can put that on my signature.  



thanks again

_________________
Pilotpat
Kitfox Classic IV
Jabiru 2200
Williamsport , PA

szakreski(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 7:33 am Post subject: Brakes little to none

So you know how the brakes "should" behave when fixed...

My 1998 Classic IV with NSI engine (830 lbs), with Matco brakes.

I can stand the aircraft on it's nose (and almost have a few times) if I

apply too much brake on landing.  So something is amiss.



SteveZ

Classic IV/NSI/CAP

Calgary



--

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 12:26 pm Post subject: Brakes little to none

I can hold my plane still with full throttle....so I'm either under- 

powered, over-propped, or over-braked. 



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/275+ hrs

do not archive



On May 18, 2007, at 11:32 AM, Steve Zakreski wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 So you know how the brakes "should" behave when fixed...

 My 1998 Classic IV with NSI engine (830 lbs), with Matco brakes.

 I can stand the aircraft on it's nose (and almost have a few times)  

 if I

 apply too much brake on landing.  So something is amiss.



 SteveZ

 Classic IV/NSI/CAP

 Calgary

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: Brakes little to none

Under powered or over propped ... Doesn't sound  like your Jab....



Perhaps you just have good brakes.... that's my best  bet.



No brakes on my floats, which should be getting wet any day  now!



 

[img]cid:586515602(at)20052007-0219[/img]  

 Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern

 Campbellton, Newfoundland, 

 Canada

 Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

 Aerocet 1100s

 noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)

 

 

 Do not archive

 

 

 



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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: Brakes little to none

So that glacier is finally melting, eh?



Seriously, I have always felt that the dealer (or Sensenich) might  

have over-propped the engine. In cruise, it seems to be about 2-300  

rpm short of redline (3300 rpm), and I don't know whether this is a  

good thing or not. I know I'm never gonna over-rev it, as long as I  

don't head downhill, but I'd like to see it pull a little better on  

the climbs. As my background has always been race cars, maybe I just  

don't know the parameters surrounding rpms desired in aircraft  

engines. Strike that...* KNOW * I don't know what I should know about  

props, rpm, etc.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/275+ hrs

do not archive

On May 19, 2007, at 10:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Under powered or over propped ... Doesn't sound like your Jab....



 Perhaps you just have good brakes.... that's my best bet.



 No brakes on my floats, which should be getting wet any day now!



 Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern

 Campbellton, Newfoundland,

 Canada

 Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

 Aerocet 1100s

 noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca

 Do not archive

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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