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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
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 Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:51 am Post subject: Avionics Master (to be or not to be) |
 |
|
At 06:16 AM 5/17/2007 -0700, you wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, I have learned my lesson not to debate you.
|
You've never debated simple ideas or repeatable
experiments. Therefore, your frustration with the
fruitlessness of your efforts is understandable and
predictable.
| Quote: | I think
you take different opinions, disagreement too personally. I
am just taking the Pro to your Con. There's nothing personal.
You can make very persuasive rhetoric. To balance it out
some times it takes rhetoric and propaganda of my own to
make the counter point. It's not personal. It's only a tribute
to your well worded doctrine that one must make an effort
to present the other views.
|
Yes, I've started to read a variety of works on
philosophy . . . and put most of them down after
discovering that proffered ideas play down individualism,
don't recognize the value of understanding simple ideas.
I've also put the book down when it becomes apparent that
the writer believes it's okay for folks with power to
infringe on the liberties of others with less power.
This isn't about "taking it personally" . . . it's about
common sense and honorable behavior.
| Quote: | You are entitled to your opinion, and again as well thought
and salient as your opinions are, I'm entitled to mine. In fact
I often and mostly agree with you, even here. I have no
disagreement with your points, but.............
My point is simple, when it comes to preference regarding
a non safety issue, where weight, cost and complexity
are not affect appreciably, than preference trumps all
opinion or reasoning. Its like circuit breakers or internal
v. external regulated alternators. To each his own.
***************************************************************
You want an avionics master put one in, done deal.
***************************************************************
|
George, you're tossing TV dinners into a microwave
in a gourmet kitchen and calling it "okay, if that's
what you prefer or it makes you feel good."
| Quote: |
I have no comments on your reply below, but some of its
not accurate or consistent with your past comments.
|
You're not going to be allowed to toss inferential
cabbages in under an aura of honorable debate. If
you have a past comment of mine to cite, do it.
I have every posting I've ever made to this list
in an archive. I'll send them to you a CD
if you need to do a search. All other words I've
written are on my website or in the book. If I've
stated something out of misunderstanding or in error,
nobody would he happier than I to correct it. However,
you're not going to get away with an off-hand inference.
These are the rules of REAL debate George.
| Quote: |
I will make one comment. In the past you have made it
clear that avionics should be made to the DO-160 spec
or they are not worth a darn as designers. Its moot, I
agree with you. However as an active builder Bob I can
tell you not all things going into homebuilt panels are
are as robust as you might think. Also old legacy radios
are still making their way into homebuilt panels, and my
Icom example, a new radio not to DO-160 specs. The
software type products also hate being on during start.
No damage just nuisance distracting reboots.
|
So the avionics master avoids distracting reboots?
Hmmmm . . . power up, BOOT, get clearance, get the ATIS,
wiggle some switches to the checklist, power down,
start the engine, power up, REBOOT. Aside from
worries about brownout damage (which should be designed
out), how does the AVMaster hold "distracting reboots"
at bay? Is there a simple-idea we're missing here?
| Quote: |
Other wise you have nit picked words and taken some
things too seriously, I stand by my original post with no
malice or ill will intended. I am just here to help.
It is clear we really don't disagree technically and most all
about words. You should have been a lawyer. You would
have been a good one. That is a compliment.
|
Its fortunate that I'm not vulnerable to insult or offense.
I cannot take that as a compliment. This forum is not
about persuasion. Persuasion is a tool of preachers,
politicians, used car salesmen, and trial lawyers. Persuasion
is intensely personal and I don't engage in it. Simple ideas
and understanding cannot be more impersonal. If you're
suggesting that I should compromise, know that I view
compromise as one of the ugliest ideas in human existence.
Compromise means that the best we know how to do always
looses alternative but lesser agendas win an incremental
victory.
An endless string of compromises have eroded and degraded
much of what made this country great. An endless stream
of compromises is wrecking a once great airplane company
I work for. I started this forum to explore and expand
on the best we know how to do based on understanding of
simple ideas and how they fit together into recipes for
success. Exactly how many switches one has on their panel
and what they do is immaterial to me if the designer is
feeling good about his achievements based on his
understanding and not upon the advice of me or anyone
else.
Your suggestion that one should "just do it
'cause you want to" is just another bag of popcorn
going into the microwave. I hope people hang out here
because they hope to achieve some level of understanding
of the specific pieces of equipment they own and a
healthy skepticism for assertions and claims made
in the marketing literature for those products.
| Quote: |
Cheers, No hard feelings. George ATP/CFI-II-ME/MSME
|
No hard feelings here either. Just a sadness that
the time and effort we've wasted here has accomplished
little more than to strengthen my resolve that microwaves
are useful for mediocre popcorn, pretty good rice and
warming a cup of cold coffee. The best we know how
to do is much more difficult to achieve but if it's
too hard, one needs only to un-subscribe. There are other
forums where the alphabet soup after your signature
generates instant respect. I have no "soup" to offer.
Only simple ideas that I'm obligated to explain and
designs I must demonstrate. Know further that useful debate
advances the best we know how to do. Debate is not used
to sell what we've always done based on lousy science.
Any notion that what you've often offered here should
be welcomed in an atmosphere of cooperation and compromise
doesn't fly . . . not in this kitchen.
Bob . . .
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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: Avionics Master (to be or not to be) |
|
|
At 06:16 AM 5/17/2007 -0700, you wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, I have learned my lesson not to debate you.
|
George, you've never demonstrated an interest in discussing
simple ideas or repeatable experiments. But then simple
ideas are not debatable and repeatable experiments are
debatable only if they don't repeat. I guess it follows
that frustration with the futility of your efforts is
understandable and predictable.
| Quote: | I think
you take different opinions, disagreement too personally. I
am just taking the Pro to your Con. There's nothing personal.
You can make very persuasive rhetoric. To balance it out
some times it takes rhetoric and propaganda of my own to
make the counter point. It's not personal. It's only a tribute
to your well worded doctrine that one must make an effort
to present the other views.
|
Yes, I've started to read a variety of works on
philosophy . . . and put most of them down after
discovering that ideas proffered play down individualism
or don't recognize the value of understanding simple ideas.
I've also put books down when it becomes apparent that
the writer believes it's okay for folks with power to
infringe on the liberties of others with less power.
This isn't about "taking it personally" . . . it's about
common sense and honorable behavior.
| Quote: | You are entitled to your opinion, and again as well thought
and salient as your opinions are, I'm entitled to mine. In fact
I often and mostly agree with you, even here. I have no
disagreement with your points, but.............
My point is simple, when it comes to preference regarding
a non safety issue, where weight, cost and complexity
are not affect appreciably, than preference trumps all
opinion or reasoning. Its like circuit breakers or internal
v. external regulated alternators. To each his own.
***************************************************************
You want an avionics master put one in, done deal.
***************************************************************
|
George, you're tossing TV dinners into the microwave
in a gourmet kitchen and calling it "okay, if that's
what you PREFER or it makes you FEEL better."
| Quote: |
I have no comments on your reply below, but some of its
not accurate or consistent with your past comments.
|
You're not going to be allowed to toss inferential
cabbages under an aura of honorable debate. If
you have a past comment of mine to cite, do it.
Every posting I've ever made to this list is
archived. I'll send them to you a CD if you need
to do a search. All other words I've written are
on my website or in the book. If I've stated something
out of misunderstanding or in error, nobody would he
more pleased than I to correct it. However, you're
not going to get away with tossing an off-hand inference.
Got a beef with something I've written? Do your homework
and quote the instance. These sir are the rules of REAL
and useful debate.
| Quote: |
I will make one comment. In the past you have made it
clear that avionics should be made to the DO-160 spec
or they are not worth a darn as designers.
|
You misquoted me. Deciding to ignore DO-160 is the
designer's privilege. If the designer says it's
for an airplane, then the consumer is entitled to know
the details of that design and then choose whether or
not they will purchase the product based on those
discoveries.
| Quote: | Its moot, I
agree with you. However as an active builder Bob I can
tell you not all things going into homebuilt panels are
are as robust as you might think. Also old legacy radios
are still making their way into homebuilt panels . . .
|
. . . define legacy. DO-160 was predated by DO-138 which
was in turn predated by DO-108 going back well
into the vacuum tube days . . .
| Quote: | and my Icom example, a new radio not to DO-160 specs.
|
Fine, if you KNOW of one radio on your bus that
does not sign up to DO-160 . . . exactly what portions
of DO-160 cause it heartburn? Can't you just turn
it OFF as opposed to adding an AVMaster to the entire
bus?
| Quote: | The software type products also hate being on during start.
No damage just nuisance distracting reboots.
|
So the avionics master avoids distracting reboots?
Hmmmm . . . power up, BOOT, get clearance, get the ATIS,
wiggle some switches to the checklist, power down,
start the engine, power up, REBOOT. Aside from
worries about brownout damage (which should be designed
out), how does the AVMaster stand off "distracting reboots"?
Is there a simple-idea we're missing here?
| Quote: |
Other wise you have nit picked words and taken some
things too seriously, I stand by my original post with no
malice or ill will intended. I am just here to help.
It is clear we really don't disagree technically and most all
about words. You should have been a lawyer. You would
have been a good one. That is a compliment.
|
Its fortunate that I choose not to be vulnerable to insult
or offense for I cannot take that as a compliment. This
forum is not about persuasion. Persuasion is a tool of
preachers, politicians, used car salesmen, and trial lawyers.
Simple ideas and understanding cannot be more impersonal.
Teaching for the purpose of aiding to understanding
is personal but I do not recall a single instance of your
behavior as being that of a teacher.
If you're suggesting that I should compromise, know that
compromise is one of the ugliest ideas in human existence.
Compromise means that the best we know how to do looses
a square inch of hide in an incremental victory by an
alternative but lesser agenda. Compromise never makes things
better, it only makes the less capable go away for awhile
to await their next opportunity to "make a difference".
An endless string of compromises have eroded and degraded
much of what made this country great. An endless stream
of compromises is wrecking a once great airplane company
I work for. I started this forum to explore and expand
on the best we know how to do based on understanding of
simple ideas and how they fit together into recipes for
success. Exactly how many switches one has on their panel
and what they do is immaterial to me if the designer is
feeling good about his achievements based on his
UNDERSTANDING if the ingredients that go into HIS recipe
for success . . . and not upon the advice of me or anyone
else.
Your suggestion that one should "just do it
'cause you want to" is just another bag of popcorn
going into the microwave. I believe people hang out here
because they hope to achieve some level of understanding
of the specific pieces of equipment they own and a
healthy skepticism for assertions and claims made
in the marketing literature for those products.
| Quote: |
Cheers, No hard feelings. George ATP/CFI-II-ME/MSME
|
No hard feelings here either. Just a sadness that
the time and effort we've wasted here has accomplished
little more than to strengthen my resolve that microwaves
are useful for mediocre popcorn, pretty good rice and
warming a cup of cold coffee. I own two of them but I
don't do any real cooking with them.
The best we know how to do is much more difficult to
achieve but if it's too hard, one needs only to
un-subscribe and take advantage of a wealth of "guidance"
offered elsewhere.
There are other forums where the alphabet soup after
your signature generates instant respect. I have no
"soup" to offer . . . only simple ideas that I'm obligated
to explain and designs that must demonstrate their usefulness.
Know further that useful debate advances the best we know how
to do. Selling tradition based on lousy science is not debate,
it's an exercise in persuasion.
Any notion that what you've often offered here should
be welcomed in an atmosphere of cooperation and tolerated
in the spirit of compromise doesn't fly in this kitchen.
'lectric No SouP Bob . . .
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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