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nose wheel cocked in flight

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Randy(at)abros.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 3:03 pm Post subject: nose wheel cocked in flight

Just one thing that some of you may not have experienced yet. I have on 2 occasions had the nose wheel cock a little on takeoff. It has been related to dealing with a crosswind and the nose wheel touching just before takeoff. I try to get the nose wheel off early and carry it till lift off but sometimes with a gust of wind or loss of wind the nose wheel will touch just a little and get moved off of straight. I checked the tightness of the nut and all is fine. This past weekend I mentioned it to Van and he said it has happen to him in flight.  We both agreed it is annoying because if you have the rudder trimmed to fly nice and true and you end up holding left rudder in to keep from crabbing through the air. He said it happened on a long trip before to him.  Anyone else.  Van said they looked for a reason like the washers had some wear that may have caused a notch but they were fine. Anyone else had this happen?  Randy 006  

      [quote][b]

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: nose wheel cocked in flight

I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but I have photos like if you

look carefully at the 3-ship formation from the LOE trip, you can

see my nosewheel is slightly swung to the right side in flight.

It's something that's been noticed before on other -10's too.

Not sure if it's just at certain angles of attack, or power settings,

or if it's induced by rudder usage.  (in that photo while flying

formation I'm sure that at times it wasn't a perfectly centered ball

while lining up for the shot)



What I don't believe is true in my case is that it affects how much

rudder I hold in flight.  I think it moves around enough with the

airflow to find it's stable position.  The rudder is pretty consistent

in how much I need from flight to flight.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Randy DeBauw wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Just one thing that some of you may not have experienced yet. I have on 

 2 occasions had the nose wheel cock a little on takeoff. It has been 

 related to dealing with a crosswind and the nose wheel touching just 

 before takeoff. I try to get the nose wheel off early and carry it till 

 lift off but sometimes with a gust of wind or loss of wind the nose 

 wheel will touch just a little and get moved off of straight. I checked 

 the tightness of the nut and all is fine. This past weekend I mentioned 

 it to Van and he said it has happen to him in flight.  We both agreed it 

 is annoying because if you have the rudder trimmed to fly nice and true 

 and you end up holding left rudder in to keep from crabbing through the 

 air. He said it happened on a long trip before to him.  Anyone else.  

 Van said they looked for a reason like the washers had some wear that 

 may have caused a notch but they were fine. Anyone else had this 

 happen?  Randy 006

 

 *

wvu(at)ameritel.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject: nose wheel cocked in flight

I had a long 2-legged trip about a month ago where I had to hold right 

rudder to center the ball on the first leg.  However the 2nd leg required 

left rudder.  Hmmm... I scratched my head and thought a quarter-size tear in 

the nose gear glass induced by the lineman using too tall of a chalk block 

somehow contributed to the difference in the 2nd leg.  I normally have to 

hold right rudder in cruise.  One other time I noticed the sound of the nose 

wheel touching ground on landing was odd.  It's easy enough to have a chase 

verify this though.

Anh

N591VU-63hours



---

ddddsp1(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject: nose wheel cocked in flight

Just a brief note to say THANKS to Randy and Cheryl tonite once we got into Portland for T Training with Mike S. this week.   If you have not seeen Randy's RV 10 you need too..he did a great job building it.  What is most amazing is he PAVED the way for the rest of us and had no one elses to look at for help.   Randy gave us a ride then treated us to a BBQ with his new GRILL at the hanger.   What a great couple to have in the RV family.  

Thanks again, 

DEAN 40449   [quote][b]

Jim & Julie Wade

Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 34

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 3:03 am Post subject: Re: nose wheel cocked in flight

I talked to Van himself at S&F and he said he has had the same problem on occasion. I fly of a grass strip and have the problem too often. The nose wheel stays cocked in flight no matter what I do I can't straighten it in flight. I can touch and to and it will straighten up. When it is cocked I have to hold a lot of rudder to center the ball. I have taken mine apart and can not work out why. Van says he can't either. If someone comes up with the answer please let us know!!!!

Jim

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 5:09 am Post subject: nose wheel cocked in flight

I don't know if this has happened to us or not because we have rudder trim.

With the trim (and no indicator except the ball), it is hard to tell if the

nose wheel is cocked to one side.  I imagine this creates a great amount of

drag.  The only thing I can suggest is to relieve a little of the tension on

the pivot so it doesn't take as much force to turn the nose wheel, while not

making it too loose.  I can say that they loosen up from use from the

initial setting (26 lbs at the axle), but I imagine they don't loosen up too

much after that first adjustment.  If you leave it too loose, then you get a

shimmy on landing - big time.  If you have it too tight, it won't straighten

up in flight.  Unfortunately, there is a lot of pressure adjustment when

just turning one flat on the nut, so there is a limited amount of fine

tuning possible.



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

www.saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 5:40 am Post subject: nose wheel cocked in flight

I've checked mine a couple times now.  It really does need a

re-adjustment, as you mentioned, in perhaps the first 50-75 hours

to get it back into that mid-20's for breakaway torque.

But, then after a couple hundred hours it is fairly loose again...not

nearly in the 20's for breakaway torque.  The problem is, as you

noted, just going one more flat gives it too much torque, so until

you either drill through a castle top and make an in-between

position, or wait for it to loosen even more, you're kind of stuck.

It's an unfortunate situation.  I thought about drilling a 2nd

hole in the leg, but I cringe at weakening that area more than

necessary.  I do have a shimmy though, briefily, just a couple

kts on either side of 35, so one of these days I'm going to have

to get it adjusted again.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Jesse Saint wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I don't know if this has happened to us or not because we have rudder trim.

 With the trim (and no indicator except the ball), it is hard to tell if the

 nose wheel is cocked to one side.  I imagine this creates a great amount of

 drag.  The only thing I can suggest is to relieve a little of the tension on

 the pivot so it doesn't take as much force to turn the nose wheel, while not

 making it too loose.  I can say that they loosen up from use from the

 initial setting (26 lbs at the axle), but I imagine they don't loosen up too

 much after that first adjustment.  If you leave it too loose, then you get a

 shimmy on landing - big time.  If you have it too tight, it won't straighten

 up in flight.  Unfortunately, there is a lot of pressure adjustment when

 just turning one flat on the nut, so there is a limited amount of fine

 tuning possible.

 

 Jesse Saint

tgesele(at)optonline.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:25 am Post subject: nose wheel cocked in flight

Based on a situation I ran into while getting my BFR in a -6A C I would not recommend loosening the nosewheel E The instructor (being in one of his more sadistic moods) C wanted to see how I handled a cross wind landing near the limits of the plane E In that instance C I needed to use full rudder and the nosewheel ended up cocking 90 deg to the runway 6nbsp;and C when the nosewheel set down C it sounded and felt 6nbsp;like the plane was going to shake apart E It did straighten after skipping a few times but we were lucky there was no damage and the nosegear didn 7t collapse E

  6nbsp;

 BTW C I believe this was not long after the plane 7s annual so it 7s unlikely the torque on the nosewheel was out of specs E E E

  6nbsp;

 Just something to keep in mind E

  6nbsp;

 Tom Gesele  3473 Finishing

---

Randy(at)abros.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:13 am Post subject: nose wheel cocked in flight

I know that my nose wheel wasn’t too tight as I has expected. It is odd that there isn’t enough wheel pant length to act on the wind hitting the side of the wheel pant to align it.  Randy  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tgesele(at)optonline.net

 Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 8:24 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: RE: Re: nose wheel cocked in flight  

  

     

Based on a situation I ran into while getting my BFR in a -6A, I would not recommend loosening the nosewheel. The instructor (being in one of his more sadistic moods), wanted to see how I handled a cross wind landing near the limits of the plane. In that instance, I needed to use full rudder and the nosewheel ended up cocking 90 deg to the runway and, when the nosewheel set down, it sounded and felt like the plane was going to shake apart. It did straighten after skipping a few times but we were lucky there was no damage and the nosegear didn't collapse.  

    

   

    

BTW, I believe this was not long after the plane's annual so it's unlikely the torque on the nosewheel was out of specs...  

    

   

    

Just something to keep in mind.  

    

   

    

Tom Gesele #473 Finishing

 ---

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: nose wheel cocked in flight

And we know how to fix that. I believe the Cherokee 6 has a fin aft of the pant.  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw

 Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 9:11 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: RE: Re: nose wheel cocked in flight  

  

   

I know that my nose wheel wasn’t too tight as I has expected. It is odd that there isn’t enough wheel pant length to act on the wind hitting the side of the wheel pant to align it.  Randy  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tgesele(at)optonline.net

 Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 8:24 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: RE: Re: nose wheel cocked in flight  

  

     

Based on a situation I ran into while getting my BFR in a -6A, I would not recommend loosening the nosewheel. The instructor (being in one of his more sadistic moods), wanted to see how I handled a cross wind landing near the limits of the plane. In that instance, I needed to use full rudder and the nosewheel ended up cocking 90 deg to the runway and, when the nosewheel set down, it sounded and felt like the plane was going to shake apart. It did straighten after skipping a few times but we were lucky there was no damage and the nosegear didn't collapse.  

    

   

    

BTW, I believe this was not long after the plane's annual so it's unlikely the torque on the nosewheel was out of specs...  

    

   

    

Just something to keep in mind.  

    

   

    

Tom Gesele #473 Finishing

 ---

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: nose wheel cocked in flight

 	  Quote: 	

 From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>

 Date: 2007/05/09 Wed PM 12:34:54 EST

 To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

 Subject: RE: RE: Re: nose wheel cocked in flight

 And we know how to fix that. I believe the Cherokee 6 has a fin aft of the

 pant.

All the Cherokees have the fin.  

They put 8 quarts of oil in at the annual and I've been cleaning that darn thing after every flight for the last month.  I'll be glad when it drops below  quarts and I don't have to clean the bottom side as much.

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:08 am Post subject: nose wheel cocked in flight

rvmail(at)thelefflers.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

All the Cherokees have the fin.  



They put 8 quarts of oil in at the annual and I've been cleaning that darn thing after every flight for the last month.  I'll be glad when it drops below  quarts and I don't have to clean the bottom side as much.



You need to educate them to only fill to 6 qts.  One of the good things 
	


about owner assisted annuals.  And you learn a whole lot more about your 

airplane as a bonus.  You won't have to clean the belly as often.  But 

then, it might rust. 

Linn

do not archive

flywrights(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:46 am Post subject: nose wheel cocked in flight

Here's an older topic, but I'm just now getting to it after being on hiatus:

  

 When I installed my  nosewheel, I torqued it, then rotated it back and forth many times, retorqued it, rotated it, retorqued it, etc. until I had a stable torque setting.  I took a number of iterations before the wheel settled into it's breakout force.  I went ahead and tightened one more flat of the nut to reach the cotter pin hole instead of loosening. I figured it would loosen up a little more in taxi/flight testing.  My final breakout with cotter pin aligned was right at 30#.

  

 Rob Wright

 #392

 Canopy trimming

 ---

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:09 am Post subject: nose wheel cocked in flight

Yup. And you'll probably find that after 50 hours or whatever

that you're down to 10# or something much lower.  It changes

quite a bit.  I wouldn't recommend cranking it another flat

right now just to prepare....just means you'll want to re-check

it about the time you're ending your flyoff, or perhaps a bit

longer down the road.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Robert Wright wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Here's an older topic, but I'm just now getting to it after being on hiatus:

  

 When I installed my  nosewheel, I torqued it, then rotated it back and 

 forth many times, retorqued it, rotated it, retorqued it, etc. until I 

 had a stable torque setting.  I took a number of iterations before the 

 wheel settled into it's breakout force.  I went ahead and tightened one 

 more flat of the nut to reach the cotter pin hole instead of loosening. 

 I figured it would loosen up a little more in taxi/flight testing.  My 

 final breakout with cotter pin aligned was right at 30#.

  

 Rob Wright

 #392

 Canopy trimming

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject: nose wheel cocked in flight

Mine is between 20 and 30 pounds...I expect that will change as thing wear in and I plan to check it again after the first several hours...I want as much use out of the $23 1-3/4 Craftsman socket and $7 3/4 to 1/2 adapter.   



Rick S.

40185

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

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