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KitFox wheel base?

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Don G

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 8:18 am Post subject: KitFox wheel base?

Gents...first, I want to thank all the fellas who responded to my earlier questions on the wings. Absolutely wonderful data!



Next question is...what is the length of a Kitfox between the mains and the tail wheel?

IN other words, how long of a trailer deck is needed to haul a KitFox Series IV speedster?

 Also, is it recommended to trailer a KitFox with the tail weight sitting on the tail wheel when folded? 

for 500 miles? 

or is there some other method of supporting the wings? 

OR supporting the rear of the fuse?

Will the front attachment fitting on the wings take this also?



Thx in advance !

_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:57 am Post subject: KitFox wheel base?

I hauled my very much incomplete 'fox 1300 miles on a converted boat  

trailer (2-leaf springs on the trailer). The trailer was for a light  

boat of the fishing variety, not a speedboat for the whole family.  

The ride for the plane should be smooth. With the wings folded, there  

will be too much weight on the rear wheel. There is a cross-tube near  

the rear wheel, that is used for a support of some fashion, and it  

keeps the weight off the rear wheel while it is on the trailer. I did  

not know this at the time I did my big haul back here. It is best, I  

believe, to elevate the fuse so it rides somewhat level. My wings  

rode on the trailer alongside the fuselage, cushioned with foam. I  

hauled my plane from Texas to Michigan with just the weight of the  

fuselage on the tailwheel, as I said, no wings, no tailfeathers, and  

my tailwheel spring eventually broke after a few months of flying it.  

I don't know whether the 1300-mile ride caused that breakage or not,  

but it couldn't have helped the situation.

You should see about making, or buying from John McBean, a set of the  

front wing spar supports.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/275+ hrs



On May 17, 2007, at 12:18 PM, Don G wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Gents...first, I want to thank all the fellas who responded to my  

 earlier questions on the wings. Absolutely wonderful data!



 Next question is...what is the length of a Kitfox between the mains  

 and the tail wheel?

 IN other words, how long of a trailer deck is needed to haul a  

 KitFox Series IV speedster?

  Also, is it recommended to trailer a KitFox with the tail weight  

 sitting on the tail wheel when folded?

 for 500 miles?

 or is there some other method of supporting the wings?

 OR supporting the rear of the fuse?

 Will the front attachment fitting on the wings take this also?



 Thx in advance !



 --------

 Don G.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

jezim(at)pro-ns.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:24 am Post subject: KitFox wheel base?

 	  Quote: 	
		  From the center of the tailwheel axel to the center of the main axel is 14 

feet on my series 5 with spring gear.
	


Jim Zimmerman

Stillwater MN.

Under construction. 0-200

---

john(at)leptron.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject: KitFox wheel base?

Don,

I have trailered my speedster on a 14 foot dual axel snowmobile trailer nose

first several thousand miles. I would rather tow tail first but on 14 foot,

you have to put prop over the tongue. Duel axel is best for chuck hole

support the lighter the spring system is the better 500 miles is no big deal

just watch for the big holes and ledges. Make sure there is no fuel on board

and use the wing outer spar braces. If you intend to tow a lot, I would make

a support for the tail tow inserts. I did see one fox break in front of the

tail, but that is one out of how many?



John Oakley



--

Don G

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: KitFox wheel base?

I dont plan  to haul it ever again, If I buy it, it will live in a nice cushy hangar.

I have a 16ft tandem flatbed utility...7000 gvw...about 1200 empty and I am aware that this is sprung a tad stiff for airplane duty. But so far, it might be my only choice. I have lots of tractor weights I might add to ease the ride. Dunno yet. 

I now see that at least it will fit on the deck....barely. 

I am looking for a better option still.



What are these wing supports and how do they work? Do they attach to the airframe?

 I have seen mention of removeing the wings entirely and stowing them. Will they fit in the length under the plane between the mains and the tailwheel?

Ailerons would probably need to come off to do this?

_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: KitFox wheel base?

Maybe lower the tire pressure on the plane to practically nothing,  

support the tailwheel on old sofa cushions or an old overstuffed  

chair. You might look like the Beverly Hillbillies, but who cares?

The wing supports go from the attach point of the wing's front spar  

down to one of the tabs on the fuselage. You can build them as crude  

as you'd like for a "one-shot" deal, maybe even hammering out the  

ends of pipe, instead of welding in a nice tab. I'm sending you a  

picture of mine on separate mailing.

Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/275+ hrs

do not archive

On May 17, 2007, at 5:33 PM, Don G wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I dont plan  to haul it ever again, If I buy it, it will live in a  

 nice cushy hangar.

 I have a 16ft tandem flatbed utility...7000 gvw...about 1200 empty  

 and I am aware that this is sprung a tad stiff for airplane duty.  

 But so far, it might be my only choice. I have lots of tractor  

 weights I might add to ease the ride. Dunno yet.

 I now see that at least it will fit on the deck....barely.

 I am looking for a better option still.



 What are these wing supports and how do they work? Do they attach  

 to the airframe?

  I have seen mention of removeing the wings entirely and stowing  

 them. Will they fit in the length under the plane between the mains  

 and the tailwheel?

 Ailerons would probably need to come off to do this?



 --------

 Don G.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

john(at)leptron.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject: KitFox wheel base?

Don,

How soon are you going to move the plane?

John O



--

Don G

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: KitFox wheel base?

Thx for the pics...I understand perfectly now.



As far as the Move..The Deal has not been struck yet. I have an offer to trade and we not very far apart on the money. The biggest Holdup is the move.  IF we were not 525 miles apart, I think we would have come together probably.  Right now...I am at the point where I have to decide if all the trouble is worth it.

 My Kolb FireFly will not make the flight. It is just not a crosscountry machine.

The KitFox is out of annual...etc...etc....

So I am exploring all the details...then must decide to kick in a little more boot...

Trouble is...you guys have about got me talked into the notion that the Speedster is just what I want!!!!!!! (grin.......



If we come together...the move could be a soon as a week...or maybe a month. I havent asked about storage after the purchase.

What have you on your mind John?

_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A

john(at)leptron.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: KitFox wheel base?

Don,

Just to save you time, if and when you go to move I will loan you my braces.

I can stick them in a tube and mail, or FedEx, you can return the same way.



john



--

Don G

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois

Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 3:29 am Post subject: Re: KitFox wheel base?

John, 

Thank you so very much for the offer.

Lynn sent me the pics of the braces, and I think I could fabricate them pretty quickly though. I have all the materilas on hand and a really good shop.

Seems I could make them telescoping and just drill one side of the center so I could adjust them on site for length on the plane and then drill the other side using 1st hole to locate.

 

This probably wont take as long as building braces for the rear of the fuse on the trailer and maybe some sides...some thing to hold the wings...arghh.. Today I am going to search for an 24 ft enclosed trailer to rent..borrow...I would much rather sling the wings in an enclosed trailer.



Getting the Kolb trailered down there is about as much of a problem to figure out.



Anybody know anything about N85KF...Yellow with red trim, built by Solomon Bradman ...florida address????

_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A

av8rps(at)tznet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: KitFox wheel base?

Don,



After doing a lot of trailering of Avid Flyers and Kitfoxes over the years, 

I think Lynn's comments were right on.  But a few I would like to add;



- If trailering with the plane backwards on an open trailer (the way the 

Avid & Kitfox factories made their trailers) make absolutely sure to support 

the rudder and elevator with carpet covered boards.  If a gust of wind from 

a truck going by catches those tailfeathers they will be seriously damaged. 

I found on my Model IV with the tall rudder going accross Iowa in some gusty 

winds on the trailer that I had to remove the rudder altogether as even the 

boards weren't working.



- Definitely support the lower rear fuselage.  Even if you can just split 

the load from teh tailwheel to the lower fusealage you will do better than 

just resting it on it's tailwheel.  If only on the tailwheel, the airplane 

will move up and down on the tail spring too much, which also works against 

any other attaching ropes or hardware you might have hooked to the airframe 

elsewhere.



- Add additional ropes for safety to the wings (besides the wing to 

fusealage attaching rods).  I usually just run a rope from the wing struts 

of each wing to the other wing strut, and tie it to the fuselage lift 

handle.  If one of those wing attach rods came undone going down the road 

without this safety rope, the wing will swing out and catch the next light 

pole or truck.  A friend of mine had this happen on the way to the airport 

with his airplane, ready for it's first flight.  When the wing hit the 

lightpole, it ripped the airplane right off the trailer.  It was a complete 

loss.



- MOST DEFINITELY USE THE FRONT WING SPAR ATTACH RODS AND REMOVE ALL THE 

FUEL FROM THE TANKS (so as to alleviate all the excess weight from the wing 

in the folded position - plus if you don't it will probably run out anyhow). 

If you don't do this, you stand a good chance of twisting or damaging the 

rear spar and/or the attach fittings/tubes.  Not worth taking a chance like 

that.



- Speedsters have less dihedral, and more flapperon counterweights than 

normal model IV's.  That sometimes makes folding the wings back more 

critical as the flapperons leading edges will almost rest against the top of 

the inboard horizontal stabilizer.  So make sure you use the braces that 

hold the wings folded so they move the least amount possible, and make sure 

to pad the fabric where the flapperon is close or rests on the stabilizer. 

Also, check to make sure the inboard flapperon counterweights aren't resting 

against the fusealage fabric near the turtledeck.  My airplane had all these 

issues, making it much more difficult to trailer than an early Avid or 

Kitfox.



- Pad your vertical fin where the flapperons get close to it during the wing 

fold.  The flapperons on a model IV are disconnected, so the only thing 

holding them up is the vertical fin and rudder.  You don't want to get home 

to find you need to do fabric repair where the flapperon trailing edge 

rubbed through the fin fabric.



- Strap down the wheels and the gear so the airplane doesn't bounce should 

you hit a large pothole or crack in the road.



- Make sure the ELT is disabled/off.  I heard of a guy that trailered a 

Kitfox halfway across the country in an enclosed trailer, having the Civil 

Air Patrol chasing him the entire way.  (at least it proved that an elt 

antenna will work with an inside the fueselage antenna...)



- Use a trailer with the lightest springs you can find, or as you said, load 

the trailer accordingly to reduce the "jolt effect" to the airframe.



- You will need to seal up the cabin and turtledeck area so rain won't get 

in when traveling.  DON'T USE DUCT TAPE TO HOLD THE PLASTIC ON. It will pull 

off paint from the fabric.  I learned this one the hard way.



I know this might sound like a lot of BS, but if you keep this note handy 

when putting it on the trailer, it will all make sense.



If you decide to use an enclosed trailer or truck, a kitfox will fit nicely 

inside a u-haul truck if you remove one wing.  A covered trailer or truck is 

always nicer in my opinion, but not always as cheap or available. Either way 

works, but the open trailer is generally more labor intensive.



And here's a little Avid/Kitfox trivia - The first Avid flyer was trailered 

to and from Oshkosh 1983 on it's own wheels with just a tow bar.  No trailer 

required!  They didn't use a trailer until they put it on floats the next 

year.  Oh yeah, they still opted to pull it tail first.





---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: KitFox wheel base?

I only trailered my plane once on the donuts.   I took this picture when I was still figuring out all the complexities of how to  strap the plane to the trailer. 



The trailer itself is a single axel  double snowmobile trailer which has been home modified with a seven foot  extension to the tow bar which has a channel installed on the top of it for the  tail wheel to roll in while loading and to support a vertical stand, not in the  photo, which fits under the mounting nut for the tail wheel spring.  The  tail wheel spring is then tied to the rear corners of the trailer platform and  down and forward to the hand winch.  Tied fairly tight three ways it cannot  move!



The main deck of the trailer has wheel blocks bolted right through  the deck that positions the aircraft and works to trap the main gear against the  loading ramps (2) which fold back and are tied to trap the main gear.  The  aircraft is positioned so the CG is roughly right over the trailer wheels with  the wings folded.



Using this system it only takes about ten minutes to  load and tie down the plane.  The trick is to open the wings before  starting to load and to manually put the tail wheel up on the trailer where the  tail wheel can be attached to the hand winch which will pull the plane aboard  the trailer.  Then trap the main gear with the ramps (heavy hinges welded  to deck of trailer for ramps) and tie the ramps in the up position. Lift  the tail and insert the support under the tail spring,  tighten the winch  slightly and then install two guy ties which will go from the tail spring to the  corners of the trailer deck.  Load the turtle deck and gas in the car and  you're ready to go!



One modification I was considering was a box bolted  to the deck to carry gas cans for the plane.  I use "ratchet" style tie  downs for the main gear traps and the tail "guy ties".  Four ties does the  whole thing.



One other quick note about trailering the plane back on....  always tie the wings closed as well as use the closure supports that attach to  the base of the vertical stab.  Having one of those little clips come off  on the highway is not an option!  Always use an elevator lock when towing  too.



[img]cid:310002801(at)20052007-0212[/img]

 

[img]cid:310002801(at)20052007-020B[/img]  

 Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern

 Campbellton, Newfoundland, 

 Canada

 Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

 Aerocet 1100s

 noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)

 

 

 Do not archive

 

  

 



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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

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