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IFR EFIS

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cjhukill(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:43 am Post subject: IFR EFIS

You guys are confusing EFIS with FMS. An EFIS system  (electronic flight instrumentation system) is just an electronic visual  presentation of the required flight instruments for IFR (or VFR) flight. The  first EFIS systems I flew in jets only gave you attitude and heading info, as  the pitot static instruments were still steam gauges. There are still lots of  JurassicJets out there flying with these early systems. There is no such thing  as an 

 "IFR EFIS" system, as if it's legal for Part 23 or 25  aircraft it's STC'd, and if it's legal for a homebuilt, it must be approved by  the builder (you). The FAA only cares that the EFIS provides the flight  instrument information to the pilot that's specified in the regs. Sorry  Tim, a Dynon is just as "legal" as your Chelton.

 The  FMS (flight management system) however is  required to be certified IFR and has to have a current database, even in a  homebuilt. A G430 is a FMS for example. When Chelton or whomever decides to  combine the functions of both an EFIS system and FMS, then the requirement still  stands that the FMS function be IFR certified (with or without approach  capability), and the database be current.

 Does anyone know of a RV10 forum that reasonably limits  itself to builder's issues, as this was at one time?

 Wading thru 92 rambling posts searching for some useful  information for my build is becoming too time consuming to continue my daily  lurk!

 Chris Hukill

    [quote][b]

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n8vim(at)arrl.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: IFR EFIS

>Does anyone know of a RV10 forum that reasonably limits itself to 

builder's issues, as this was at one time?



I hear Van's has email support for builder issues 



Other than that, the "search messages" in my email program works wonders 

for filtering what I want to find information on. I now have 20,148 

messages in my archive (from even before the Yahoo!s came over)



-Jim 40384

Chris Hukill wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   You guys are confusing EFIS with FMS. An EFIS system (electronic 

 flight instrumentation system) is just an electronic visual 

 presentation of the required flight instruments for IFR (or VFR) 

 flight. The first EFIS systems I flew in jets only gave you attitude 

 and heading info, as the pitot static instruments were still steam 

 gauges. There are still lots of JurassicJets out there flying with 

 these early systems. There is no such thing as an

 "IFR EFIS" system, as if it's legal for Part 23 or 25 aircraft it's 

 STC'd, and if it's legal for a homebuilt, it must be approved by the 

 builder (you). The FAA only cares that the EFIS provides the flight 

 instrument information to the pilot that's specified in the 

 regs. Sorry Tim, a Dynon is just as "legal" as your Chelton.

 The  FMS (flight management system) however is required to be 

 certified IFR and has to have a current database, even in a homebuilt. 

 A G430 is a FMS for example. When Chelton or whomever decides to 

 combine the functions of both an EFIS system and FMS, then the 

 requirement still stands that the FMS function be IFR certified (with 

 or without approach capability), and the database be current.

 Does anyone know of a RV10 forum that reasonably limits itself to 

 builder's issues, as this was at one time?

 Wading thru 92 rambling posts searching for some useful information 

 for my build is becoming too time consuming to continue my daily lurk!

 Chris Hukill



*

*

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:03 am Post subject: IFR EFIS

Chris Hukill wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   You guys are confusing EFIS with FMS. An EFIS system (electronic flight 

 instrumentation system) is just an electronic visual presentation of the 

 required flight instruments for IFR (or VFR) flight. The first EFIS 

 systems I flew in jets only gave you attitude and heading info, as the 

 pitot static instruments were still steam gauges. There are still lots 

 of JurassicJets out there flying with these early systems. There is no 

 such thing as an

 "IFR EFIS" system, as if it's legal for Part 23 or 25 aircraft it's 

 STC'd, and if it's legal for a homebuilt, it must be approved by the 

 builder (you). The FAA only cares that the EFIS provides the flight 

 instrument information to the pilot that's specified in the regs. Sorry 

 Tim, a Dynon is just as "legal" as your Chelton.


	


Oh no, I don't disagree one iota that a Dynon is just as "legal".

You're also bringing in a term (FMS) that I was hesitant to add to

the discussion. IMHO, the CFS system is pretty much the better

definition of the Chelton.   The problem is, although you can call

a G430 and FMS, it is NOT and EFIS....but the Chelton does meet the

definition as you state it below of an FMS.  So then although I admit,

there is no solid definition of an "IFR EFIS", if you have a true

FMS with full EFIS capabilities, then by extension doesn't that

make it an "IFR EFIS"?  Admittedly we're playing with words a bit

and coining new terms, but that's in the good intentions of trying to

better define a system.



How do you define "Good family airplane", or "Great x/c cruiser"?  There

is no official definition, so you have to look at what goes into the

term and eliminate the ones that don't fit....is a Champ a "good

family airplane"?  etc...



Sorry for making you miserable with the thread, but I think there

are far more people happy to see it here than there are people who

just don't want to hit the delete button a couple dozen more times.

This has been one of the better discussions we've had in months, and

yet at the same time, building related questions are being answered

daily.....it's a far far far cry from reading some topics on the

generic RV list.  Of course, feel free to filter people or delete

as necessary.



Tim

 	  Quote: 	
		   The  FMS (flight management system) however is required to be certified 

 IFR and has to have a current database, even in a homebuilt. A G430 is a 

 FMS for example. When Chelton or whomever decides to combine the 

 functions of both an EFIS system and FMS, then the requirement still 

 stands that the FMS function be IFR certified (with or without approach 

 capability), and the database be current.

 Does anyone know of a RV10 forum that reasonably limits itself to 

 builder's issues, as this was at one time?

 Wading thru 92 rambling posts searching for some useful information for 

 my build is becoming too time consuming to continue my daily lurk!

 Chris Hukill

 

 *

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: IFR EFIS

Chris,



Thanks for your comments but I guess to some, the decision on what to put in the panel is a "builder issue" and I think most on this list benefit from the discussion.  If you want a PURE airframe builder issue dialog then it is probably best to converse with Van's factory.  I don't think it takes too much effort to click next or delete on those long winded ramblings.  Certainly the non-RV(10) or political post are inappropriate on this list, but just because a thread is of no value to you, does not mean that there are a hundred other out there who find value in it.



William

http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ 



------

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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: IFR EFIS

You could also use the search feature on Matronics site or just check the forum subject headers in that site.



Do not archive



--

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