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Sound proofing the 10 ?

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johnh38(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

I have been lurking on this group for months and appreciate Everyone¢s ideas, suggestions, and opinions. Thanks to all.  

 <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

Now I need to ask for advise/recommendations. I have searched this site as well as vansairforce.net and haven¢t found a lot of information posted pertaining to insulation &/or soundproofing the RV-10.  Is anyone other than Deems & Curtis soundproofing their aircraft? I¢m working on the fuse and am trying to weigh the options, Pros vs. Cons. My thinking is that I will add something that is approved to deaden the noise. It's what is available that has me perplexed. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Sorry to delve off the panel discussion topic, but I need to think about installation before laying the floors/side panels of the fuse. Specifically, I'm looking for materials like whats available from aircraft spruce and SoundExproducts.  http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/soundproofinstall.php. And this link I copied from Curtis http://www.soundexproducts.com/information.html  

  

  

Thanks 

John #40102



 [quote][b]

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 6:55 pm Post subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

John, insulation whether Sound Attenuating or Thermal adds weight. Your use of the work “Approved” may just imply compliant with FAR 25.283 fire retardant “Flame Spread” standards.  On the other hand as the builder, anything you use becomes approved by your use and your DAR’s acceptance, as there is no standard.  So what are your objectives again?  I am a fan of Zetex for the firewall.  Remember that all insulation should be able to be removed for future inspection of corrosion.  Great insulation does not absorb moisture but allows it to pass through like a band-aid.  

  

Dan Newland did an article for Sport Aviation in April 2005 on this exact subject,  but my archive PDF was 15 meg so check the EAA archives. We don’t need screams from the “ tin can and string crowd”.  

John  

#40600  

  

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of John Hurst

 Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 6:30 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?  

  

I have been lurking on this group for months and appreciate Everyoneʼs ideas, suggestions, and opinions. Thanks to all.   

   

Now I need to ask for advise/recommendations. I have searched this site as well as vansairforce.net and havenʼt found a lot of information posted pertaining to insulation &/or soundproofing the RV-10.  Is anyone other than Deems & Curtis soundproofing their aircraft? Iʼm working on the fuse and am trying to weigh the options, Pros vs. Cons. My thinking is that I will add something that is approved to deaden the noise. It's what is available that has me perplexed. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Sorry to delve off the panel discussion topic, but I need to think about installation before laying the floors/side panels of the fuse. Specifically, I'm looking for materials like whats available from aircraft spruce and SoundExproducts.  http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/soundproofinstall.php. And this link I copied from Curtis http://www.soundexproducts.com/information.html   

   

   

Thanks  

John   

#40102  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 [b]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List  

  

  

  

 [b]http://forums.matronics.com  

 
   [quote][b]

jfrjr(at)adelphia.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

John:  For better or for worse I have  soundproofed/insulated my 10.  I primarily used Aircraft Spruce "Super  Soundproofing Sheet" (pn 09-42719, etc) in various thicknesses. Every  external panel and floorboard (and even the baggage door) has this stuff  attached to the fuse skin (using a spray on adhesive recommended by Sir Tim)  using various thicknesses.  Under the front floorboards and forward tunnel  I also put a layer of heat/fire insulation (obtained from Abby at  Flightlline).  I did all this primarily for the insulation factors since I  live and fly in Maine---and what with the ANR headsets, noise reduction was of  secondary importance.  Fitting all the spaces was a bit of a chore but  since the two sides are mirror images you only have to measure and cut once for  every two spaces (and even less than that with some of the floor spaces all the  same size).  I used some butcher paper initially to make the patterns---if  I had been thinking I could have marked these up as to their location and sent  them on to another builder. I would guess it took me about 8 hours to do the  whole plane, not counting the firewall which I have yet to do. It does add  some weight---maybe in the order of 5-10 lbs.  Hope it keeps me warm.   Jay Rowe

 [quote]   ---

bootless(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

Hi John and all...

 

 The June Kitplanes issue has an article on soundproofing- it was centered on Rick Lindstrom's Zenith 601XL, but I would imagine that the non-model-specific information may be helpful.

 

 best,

 Cory

 

 John W. Cox wrote:

 [quote]         RE: Sound proofing the 10 ?    

John, insulation whether   Sound Attenuating or Thermal adds weight. Your use of the work “Approved” may just imply compliant with FAR 25.283 fire retardant “Flame Spread” standards.  On the other hand as the builder, anything you use becomes approved by your use and your DAR’s acceptance, as there is no standard.  So what are your objectives again?  I am a fan of Zetex for the firewall.  Remember that all insulation should be able to be removed for future inspection of corrosion.  Great insulation does not absorb moisture but allows it to pass through like a band-aid.   

Dan Newland did an article for Sport Aviation in April 2005 on this exact subject,  but my archive PDF was 15 meg so check the EAA archives. We don’t need screams from the “ tin can and string crowd”.   

John   

#40600             
   
 [b]

johnh38(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

John,

  

 That's what concerns me. All the references that I've read state that I should use contact cement (or some state that one side of the insulating material contains an adhesive) all of which would prevent inspection of the aluminum structure. And yes I did mean "Approved" in the sense of the FAR rule. A product that will NOT absorb moisture or odor, is long lasting and durable. Application for both sound and thermal barrier, more so on the sound side.  As far as weight is concerned, I didn't think that it would add a considerable amount,  possibly 8-10 pounds. That is just an estimate and I didn't think that it was an issue for my family. Considering that our total weight is ~ 550 pounds (4 people).

  

 Also, I'm presently looking for the April 2005 Sport Aviation issue to see what's recommended. It's on the EAA website but not linkable, its on page 52  Taming the Noise http://www.eaa.org/benefits/sportaviation/0504_toc.html

 

 

 John

 #40102



 ---

rv10(at)sinkrate.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 9:47 pm Post subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

How many “linear ft” of this stuff are people buying?  

   

Ben  

40579 (fuse bottom skins)  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Rowe

 Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 8:09 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Sound proofing the 10 ?  

  

     

John:  For better or for worse I have soundproofed/insulated my 10.  I primarily used Aircraft Spruce "Super Soundproofing Sheet" (pn 09-42719, etc) in various thicknesses. Every external panel and floorboard (and even the baggage door) has this stuff attached to the fuse skin (using a spray on adhesive recommended by Sir Tim) using various thicknesses.  Under the front floorboards and forward tunnel I also put a layer of heat/fire insulation (obtained from Abby at Flightlline).  I did all this primarily for the insulation factors since I live and fly in Maine---and what with the ANR headsets, noise reduction was of secondary importance.  Fitting all the spaces was a bit of a chore but since the two sides are mirror images you only have to measure and cut once for every two spaces (and even less than that with some of the floor spaces all the same size).  I used some butcher paper initially to make the patterns---if I had been thinking I could have marked these up as to their location and sent them on to another builder. I would guess it took me about 8 hours to do the whole plane, not counting the firewall which I have yet to do. It does add some weight---maybe in the order of 5-10 lbs.  Hope it keeps me warm.  Jay Rowe  

  [quote]    

---

ScooterF15

Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 136

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 2:55 am Post subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

John,

 

I considered sound proofing while I was building, but then I realized that  

I'd flown in both factory -10s and found the noise level to be quite acceptable 

 to me. I called to ask Van's what kind of insulation/soundproofing they had  

done; they said none. That is what I did as well and I'm very happy with it. 

I  flew the first 50 hours with a regular headset and that was fine. I 

purchased a  Lightspeed ANR headset a few months ago and that makes the  airplane 

plenty quiet inside.

 

-Jim

40134 

 

In a message dated 5/27/2007 9:32:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  

johnh38(at)yahoo.com writes:



 

 

I have been lurking on this  group for months and appreciate Everyone¢s 

ideas, suggestions, and  opinions. Thanks to all.  

Now I need to ask for  advise/recommendations. I have searched this site as 

well as vansairforce.net  and haven¢t found a lot of information posted 

pertaining to insulation  &/or soundproofing the RV-10.   Is anyone other than Deems 

& Curtis soundproofing their aircraft?  I¢m working on the fuse and am trying 

to weigh the options, Pros vs. Cons. My  thinking is that I will add something 

that is approved to deaden the noise.  It's what is available that has me 

perplexed. Any recommendations would be  appreciated. Sorry to delve off the 

panel discussion topic, but I need to  think about installation before laying the 

floors/side panels of the fuse.  Specifically, I'm looking for materials like 

whats available from aircraft  spruce and SoundExproducts.  

_http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/soundproofinstall.php_ 

(http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/soundproofinstall.php) .  And this link I copied from 

Curtis _http://www.soundexproducts.com/information.html_ 

(http://www.soundexproducts.com/information.html)   

Thanks 

John #40102



 

Jim "Scooter"  McGrew

_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)  



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com

mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 4:11 am Post subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

I used Super Sound Proofing from Aircraft Spruce under the floor panels 

(mercy I'll have to drill out 10,000 pop rivets to inspect per one guru) 

from the baggage area to the firewall.  Also put some behind the fuse side 

panels and on the aft side of the firewall.  Noise level is real low (have 

not measured sound level).



Mark

N410MR



 	  Quote: 	
		  From: John Hurst <johnh38(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 18:30:01 -0700 (PDT)



I have been lurking on this group for months and appreciate Everyone¢s 

ideas, suggestions, and opinions. Thanks to all.



Now I need to ask for advise/recommendations. I have searched this site as 

well as vansairforce.net and haven¢t found a lot of information posted 

pertaining to insulation &/or soundproofing the RV-10.  Is anyone other 

than Deems & Curtis soundproofing their aircraft? I¢m working on the fuse 

and am trying to weigh the options, Pros vs. Cons. My thinking is that I 

will add something that is approved to deaden the noise. It's what is 

available that has me perplexed. Any recommendations would be appreciated. 

Sorry to delve off the panel discussion topic, but I need to think about 

installation before laying the floors/side panels of the fuse. 

Specifically, I'm looking for materials like whats available from aircraft 

spruce and SoundExproducts.  

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/soundproofinstall.php. And 

this link I copied from Curtis 

http://www.soundexproducts.com/information.html

Thanks

John

#40102


	


_________________________________________________________________

More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail.

wayne.e(at)grandecom.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 4:19 am Post subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

John,

  

 I fully sound proofed my plane. I haven't flown yet  so I can't attest to the final results, but I think it should be very quite. If  you knock on the side of my plane it's just a thud not the tin can sound you  normally hear without soundproofing.

  

 I bought two types of material. One for the fire  wall and the other for the remainder of the plane. It seems to be very high  quality easy to install material. They come in a 27x48 sheet and have a silver  outer shell looking like tin foil. They have a sticky back that you just remove  the film after you've cut it and stick it onto the plane surface. Very easy to  install. I'm having a custom interior guy do my interior and he also uses this  same material.

  

 I purchased the insulation from Buckley Industries  in Wichita, KS.   http://buckleyind.com/

  

 If I've got the numbers correct the firewall  insulation sheet was part # 139675 and it cost $82.81 for the 27x48 sheet. The  side body insulation # is 139679 and cost $76.64 for the sheet.

  

 I think it's a very good product, although a little  pricy..

  

 Wayne Edgerton #40336

  

 DAR coming today if the weather holds  out

   [quote][b]

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 4:31 am Post subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

Good luck with the DAR, let us know how it turns out.  

     

Rene' Felker  

N423CF  

40322  

801-721-6080  

        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton

 Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 6:19 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Sound proofing the 10 ?  

  

     

John,  

    

   

    

I fully sound proofed my plane. I haven't flown yet so I can't attest to the final results, but I think it should be very quite. If you knock on the side of my plane it's just a thud not the tin can sound you normally hear without soundproofing.  

    

   

    

I bought two types of material. One for the fire wall and the other for the remainder of the plane. It seems to be very high quality easy to install material. They come in a 27x48 sheet and have a silver outer shell looking like tin foil. They have a sticky back that you just remove the film after you've cut it and stick it onto the plane surface. Very easy to install. I'm having a custom interior guy do my interior and he also uses this same material.  

    

   

    

I purchased the insulation from Buckley Industries in Wichita, KS.   http://buckleyind.com/  

    

   

    

If I've got the numbers correct the firewall insulation sheet was part # 139675 and it cost $82.81 for the 27x48 sheet. The side body insulation # is 139679 and cost $76.64 for the sheet.  

    

   

    

I think it's a very good product, although a little pricy..  

    

   

    

Wayne Edgerton #40336  

    

   

    

DAR coming today if the weather holds out  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4

       [quote][b]

evmeg(at)snowcrest.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:05 am Post subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

If you want the approved aircraft stuff the place to start is a company

called E.A.R. Quite expensive though. http://www.earaircraft.com/

I went the hot rod route and used a product from another company called

b-quiet in Canada. Much cheaper and the ansi tests seem to have it working

better than any other. It is a sticky butle rubber with a layer of dead

soft aluminum on the outside. See it at the following link.

http://www.b-quiet.com/ I bought the bquiet ultimate in a 50 foot roll and

used it up....will need another to do the whole inside cabin.

Cheers..

Evan

 	  Quote: 	
		  

>From: John Hurst <johnh38(at)yahoo.com>

>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

>Subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

>Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 18:30:01 -0700 (PDT)

>

>I have been lurking on this group for months and appreciate Everyone¢s

>ideas, suggestions, and opinions. Thanks to all.

>

>Now I need to ask for advise/recommendations. I have searched this site

> as

>well as vansairforce.net and haven¢t found a lot of information posted

>pertaining to insulation &/or soundproofing the RV-10.  Is anyone other

>than Deems & Curtis soundproofing their aircraft? I¢m working on the fuse

>and am trying to weigh the options, Pros vs. Cons. My thinking is that I

>will add something that is approved to deaden the noise. It's what is

>available that has me perplexed. Any recommendations would be

> appreciated.

>Sorry to delve off the panel discussion topic, but I need to think about

>installation before laying the floors/side panels of the fuse.

>Specifically, I'm looking for materials like whats available from

> aircraft

>spruce and SoundExproducts.

>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/soundproofinstall.php. And

>this link I copied from Curtis

>http://www.soundexproducts.com/information.html

>Thanks

>John

>#40102



 _________________________________________________________________

 More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live

 Hotmail.


	


---------------------------------------------

This message was sent using SnowCrest WebMail.

http://www.snowcrest.net

jdalton77(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

Dean,

  

 What thicknesses did you use?

  

 Jeff

 Wings Started

 [quote]   ---

flywrights(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

Use Super SoundProof from Aircraft Spruce, go thick at the front of the fuse and thinner at the back seats.  Use Sticky Stuff from ACS to glue it in.

  

 Rob Wright

 #392

 Canopy, looking at a buildus interruptus for a new job and moving...

 ---

Vern(at)teclabsinc.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:32 pm Post subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

At Sun-N-Fun I went to a forum on redoing aircraft interiors. The speaker had a piece of aluminum from a Beech interior where contact cement was used to attach some foam during the previous interior installation. Where the contact cement was used, on bare aluminum, sever corrosion had set in. By contrast the other side of the aluminum was bright and shiny. His recommendation was to acid etch, alodine and zinc chromate before applying contact cement to aluminum. He didn’t mention any other primers and I didn’t ask. No primer wars just passing information along.  

   

Vern Smith (#324 fuselage)  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hurst

 Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 8:38 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Sound proofing the 10 ?  

  

       

John,  

    

   

    

That's what concerns me. All the references that I've read state that I should use contact cement (or some state that one side of the insulating material contains an adhesive) all of which would prevent inspection of the aluminum structure. And yes I did mean "Approved" in the sense of the FAR rule. A product that will NOT absorb moisture or odor, is long lasting and durable. Application for both sound and thermal barrier, more so on the sound side.  As far as weight is concerned, I didn't think that it would add a considerable amount,  possibly 8-10 pounds. That is just an estimate and I didn't think that it was an issue for my family. Considering that our total weight is ~ 550 pounds (4 people).  

    

   

    

Also, I'm presently looking for the April 2005 Sport Aviation issue to see what's recommended. It's on the EAA website but not linkable, its on page 52  [i]Taming the Noise[/i] http://www.eaa.org/benefits/sportaviation/0504_toc.html  

    



    

    

John  

    

#40102  

  

  

      [quote][b]

tlc2(at)telus.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

Early Chris Heinz  (Zenithair/Zenair) designs cemented building foam to the inside of  the fuselage to dampen the oil canning noise.

  

 Tim C

   [quote][b]

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: Sound proofing the 10 ?

John – I tried to forward the PDF copy of the article to you but your server restricts files of such size.  I will try to reduce the resolution.  

   

Vern is dead on with what we see with airframes during our Heavy Checks “C” checks.  Insulation should be able to be easily removed for visual inspection of corrosion. The lower the insulation, the more it is exposed to condensate. The natural humidity present in vapor will condense and have no means of escape.  For most builders, it is probably a trade off they have decided to make.  Quieter, cooler and willing to run the risk of replacing lower skins way down the road.  We do see the condensation run (due to gravity) just like a wet towel on a rack.  This is a secondary reason why wiring should be run high on a sidewall (above fluid lines) and not run down near the wet insulation under the flooring.  

   

Boy don’t you envy those guys in Arizona, New Mexico and Texas right now?  

   

On a Cessna 150 that I just completed an annual on. We removed 5 ½ quarts of water that was setting in the empennage.  The drain hole had plugged and it was amazing the lake of water found in the tail in May.  Drain holes, now there is another road to discuss.  

   

John Cox  

#40600  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern W. Smith

 Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 2:32 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Sound proofing the 10 ?  

  

   

At Sun-N-Fun I went to a forum on redoing aircraft interiors. The speaker had a piece of aluminum from a Beech interior where contact cement was used to attach some foam during the previous interior installation. Where the contact cement was used, on bare aluminum, sever corrosion had set in. By contrast the other side of the aluminum was bright and shiny. His recommendation was to acid etch, alodine and zinc chromate before applying contact cement to aluminum. He didn’t mention any other primers and I didn’t ask. No primer wars just passing information along.  

   

Vern Smith (#324 fuselage)  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hurst

 Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 8:38 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Sound proofing the 10 ?  

  

       

John,  

    

   

    

That's what concerns me. All the references that I've read state that I should use contact cement (or some state that one side of the insulating material contains an adhesive) all of which would prevent inspection of the aluminum structure. And yes I did mean "Approved" in the sense of the FAR rule. A product that will NOT absorb moisture or odor, is long lasting and durable. Application for both sound and thermal barrier, more so on the sound side.  As far as weight is concerned, I didn't think that it would add a considerable amount,  possibly 8-10 pounds. That is just an estimate and I didn't think that it was an issue for my family. Considering that our total weight is ~ 550 pounds (4 people).  

    

   

    

Also, I'm presently looking for the April 2005 Sport Aviation issue to see what's recommended. It's on the EAA website but not linkable, its on page 52  [i]Taming the Noise[/i] http://www.eaa.org/benefits/sportaviation/0504_toc.html  

    



    

    

John  

    

#40102  

  

  [quote]   [b]

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