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JonSteiger
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1
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 Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: FireFly fuel tank options? |
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Hello all! Its been a looong time since I last posted, unfortunately the pace of life has kept me from getting into the sky as often as I would like.  I'm trying to rectify that though, and am just now going through the process of getting my FireFly ready for the flying season. (I was hoping to finish in time to make it to a local fly-in tomorrow, but unfortunately ran out of time so rather than rush things I'll be driving down instead.)
ANYWAY.... When I removed the fuel tank to clean it out and replace some of the fuel lines, I noticed that the line the previous owner plumbed to the bottom of the tank was leaking (around the push-in grommet), and also after 10 years of use, the gas tank seems to have gotten a bit softer than it used to be, so I'd like to replace it.
I noticed a post from August of 2006 from John H. saying that Kolb has 6 gallon tanks to replace the 5 gallon. I plan to send TNK an e-mail to inquire about these, but I was also wondering what other options might be available to me? (For anyone who has ordered one of the new style TNK tanks, how do you like them? Decent quality?) My current tank is about 10 inches square by 14" high, and it bears a striking resemblance to the chemical containers we used to buy filled with chlorine for the swimming pool.
I thought about looking into building a custom tank to get some more volume, but since the plane is built already, this does limit my options somewhat. (I'd also need to revisit my weight and balance calculations to see where such a tank might be placed.) The current tank is 5 gallons, and to fly to the "local" airport, I need to carry some extra fuel with me in order to get there and back with an acceptable reserve. (I have an old backpack strapped to the back of the fuel tank and use it to carry a few 2 liter soda bottles filled with premix which I use to refill the tank prior to departing for home.) I thought about a racing fuel cell, or a large gas can, but any of those would require the cage which braces the original style tank to be cut, and I'd like to avoid that if possible.
Since my time is at a premium unfortunately, I suspect what I will probably end up doing is to get a 6 gallon tank from Kolb, assuming they are available and reasonably priced. This will at least get me in the air again and give me an extra gallon of fuel over what I had before.
One idea I had is to perhaps hang a sealed tank (or two) of some type above the main fuel tank. These aux. tanks would be airtight and have only one opening each, a barbed fitting at the bottom to which would be attached a length of fuel line which would run down and into the top of the main tank through a tight fitting grommet or a bulkhead fitting. The line(s) from the aux tank(s) would dangle down into the main fuel tank such that if the tank is full, the ends would be covered. Once the fuel level in the main tank started to drop, the ends of these lines would be uncovered, which would allow air to enter and drain fuel from the aux tanks until the ends of the lines were covered again. (Basically the same concept as the office water cooler or one of those 5 gallon pet waterers.) Seems like this would be a very reliable method, no moving parts, in-flight refueling, and no need to manually start or stop the refueling, it'd be automatic. The only hassle might be refilling those aux tanks. I guess having a gas cap opening would make that part easier, although it would have to seal perfectly airtight in order to prevent fuel from leaking down and overfilling the main tank. Anyway, that was just something stewing in the back of my mind so I figured I'd spew it here in case someone can think of a reason why it'd be a dumb thing to do. 
Sorry for the length of this post! Many thanks in advance for any assistance anyone can provide!
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject: FireFly fuel tank options? |
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Welcome back, Jon, it's been a long time.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
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Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: FireFly fuel tank options? |
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Jon, TNK had the six gallon tanks at Sun n Fun for $20. They are the same dimensions as the 5 gallon tanks, except they are taller. When I asked Travis if they were as big a PITA to wrestle into the cage as the originals, he said, "pretty much the same".
As long as you're brainstorming ideas for an auxillary tank, why not a root tube tank from a Quicksilver? If it would fit, it might be the solution to your problem and would double your fuel capacity. I do not know if you would have enough room between the spar carry through tube of the cage and the engine, but it might.
While you're replumbing you might want to consider the new top tap that removes that bottom grommet. All your fuel lines would then be on the top of the tank where inspection and replacement is much easier.
Rick
On 6/15/07, JonSteiger <kolb-list(at)jonsteiger.com (kolb-list(at)jonsteiger.com)> wrote: | Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JonSteiger" <kolb-list(at)jonsteiger.com (kolb-list(at)jonsteiger.com)>
Hello all! Its been a looong time since I last posted, unfortunately the pace of life has kept me from getting into the sky as often as I would like. I'm trying to rectify that though, and am just now going through the process of getting my FireFly ready for the flying season. (I was hoping to finish in time to make it to a local fly-in tomorrow, but unfortunately ran out of time so rather than rush things I'll be driving down instead.)
ANYWAY.... When I removed the fuel tank to clean it out and replace some of the fuel lines, I noticed that the line the previous owner plumbed to the bottom of the tank was leaking (around the push-in grommet), and also after 10 years of use, the gas tank seems to have gotten a bit softer than it used to be, so I'd like to replace it.
I noticed a post from August of 2006 from John H. saying that Kolb has 6 gallon tanks to replace the 5 gallon. I plan to send TNK an e-mail to inquire about these, but I was also wondering what other options might be available to me? (For anyone who has ordered one of the new style TNK tanks, how do you like them? Decent quality?) My current tank is about 10 inches square by 14" high, and it bears a striking resemblance to the chemical containers we used to buy filled with chlorine for the swimming pool.
I thought about looking into building a custom tank to get some more volume, but since the plane is built already, this does limit my options somewhat. (I'd also need to revisit my weight and balance calculations to see where such a tank might be placed.) The current tank is 5 gallons, and to fly to the "local" airport, I need to carry some extra fuel with me in order to get there and back with an acceptable reserve. (I have an old backpack strapped to the back of the fuel tank and use it to carry a few 2 liter soda bottles filled with premix which I use to refill the tank prior to departing for home.) I thought about a racing fuel cell, or a large gas can, but any of those would require the cage which braces the original style tank to be cut, and I'd like to avoid that if possible.
Since my time is at a premium unfortunately, I suspect what I will probably end up doing is to get a 6 gallon tank from Kolb, assuming they are available and reasonably priced. This will at least get me in the air again and give me an extra gallon of fuel over what I had before.
One idea I had is to perhaps hang a sealed tank (or two) of some type above the main fuel tank. These aux. tanks would be airtight and have only one opening each, a barbed fitting at the bottom to which would be attached a length of fuel line which would run down and into the top of the main tank through a tight fitting grommet or a bulkhead fitting. The line(s) from the aux tank(s) would dangle down into the main fuel tank such that if the tank is full, the ends would be covered. Once the fuel level in the main tank started to drop, the ends of these lines would be uncovered, which would allow air to enter and drain fuel from the aux tanks until the ends of the lines were covered again. (Basically the same concept as the office water cooler or one of those 5 gallon pet waterers.) Seems like this would be a very reliable method, no moving parts, in-flight refueling, and no need to manually start or stop the refueling, it'd be automatic. The only hassle might be ref!
illing those aux tanks. I guess having a gas cap opening would make that part easier, although it would have to seal perfectly airtight in order to prevent fuel from leaking down and overfilling the main tank. Anyway, that was just something stewing in the back of my mind so I figured I'd spew it here in case someone can think of a reason why it'd be a dumb thing to do.
Sorry for the length of this post! Many thanks in advance for any assistance anyone can provide!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118668#118668
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Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport. [quote][b]
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ulflyer(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:13 pm Post subject: FireFly fuel tank options? |
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Hi Jon,
Sorry to hear you don't have time to fly.
Just curious, how far is it to your local airport - miles and flying time?
Do you have the full enclosure option - that is the wind screen that
wraps side-side, from nose cone to the leading edge of the wing? We
never installed the rear clear vinyl part as were in Texas and soft
so if its below 50 its to cold to fly any how.
We used to have a FireFly with full wind screen so I got good idea of
it flying limits on 5 gallons.
If they only want $20 for that new 6 gallon tank I would grab one in
a heart beat - cheapest extra gallon you'll get.
Do a top pick up on the tank not punched in the bottom, they leak
over time. In the top put a 1/4"OD tube held in place with a fitting
in the top of the tank to seal and secure the 1/4" copper or alum.
tubing with it extending down to within a 1/2" of the bottom - make
sure the tube can't slide up or down.
In my CGS Hawk I used a 10 gallon Challenger tank. This tank has a
female threaded port on the top for a pick up - their normal
configuration is a single brass fitting which screws into the port -
I made a alum. 5/8" dia. plug, drilled 3 clearance holes in it, (2)
for 1/4" tubes and (1) for 1/8". In the plug I mounted (T-88
epoxied) 1 short 1/4" tube short one for a vent, another 1/4"
extended to with about 1/2" of the bottom of the tank, and an 1/8"
dia tube down to about the bottom of the main pickup for primer
pickup. I tried using 1/8" alum. tube first, found that it is not
very strong. Managed to break it off right away just trying to
remove a temp. primer line hose, I was happy it happened when it
did. Had to convert to the backup using 1/8" Nylaflow tubing. It's
the stuff used for brake lines sold by Aircraft Spruce and is
supposed to be suitable for fuel line. So far this has worked
great. You might be able to accomplish the same thing with a flange
glued to the top of the tank using the proper material - Jim Baker
probably can come up with glue that will stick to polyethylene tank.
Ya, we used to have same problem as you not enough fuel to make it
round trip and sweating fuel takes fly out of it. My partner had a
2-1/2 gal. gas can that would fit down behind the seat if I recall
right. We thought a 7-1/2 gallon tank would have been perfect but
six is better than five. He also rigged up a way to carry another
2-1/2 above the normal tank if needed. With the enclosure we would
cruise between 65-70, 60 if we were not pushing it. While there has
been some debate about this our Fly had a sweet spot - kind of like
getting on step with floats where the nose would drop a little and it
would pick up speed allowing you to hold the speed at lower
RPM. Both of us have experienced it. He flew it more than I did.
Well I have rambled on enough,
jerb
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