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Jerry Cochran

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: Wilsonville, OR

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:10 pm Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

Listers,

 

This question has been asked before by others, but replies are unclear. The  

good folks at Icom have put an insufficient (IMO)  "wiring diagram" in  their 

one sheet fold-out instructions. This is not like the ones  we see on this 

list, so they must think we are incapable of  reading a "real" one. 

 

Now that I've vented... Has anyone out there made a genuine one for this  

radio that I can beg, borrow, steal?  My setup is with two of these radios,  but 

with no audio panel.

This might have been a mistake, trying to save weight, time, panel space,  

and $$$...

 

Jerry Cochran

Wilsonville, OR

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

At 06:01 PM 2/9/2006 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Listers,



This question has been asked before by others, but replies are unclear. The

good folks at Icom have put an insufficient (IMO)  "wiring diagram" in  their

one sheet fold-out instructions. This is not like the ones  we see on this

list, so they must think we are incapable of  reading a "real" one.



Now that I've vented... Has anyone out there made a genuine one for this

radio that I can beg, borrow, steal?  My setup is with two of these 

radios,  but

with no audio panel.

This might have been a mistake, trying to save weight, time, panel space,

and $$$...


	


  Got a 'net address for their published schematic?



   Bob . . .

rv8ch

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:33 pm Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

> Got a 'net address for their published schematic?

I've scanned one here:



http://rv8.ch/files/Icom%20IC-A200%20Installation%20Instructions.pdf



Basically you want page 5.  Sorry about the huge file size

for those of you not on broadband.  It's about 6MB.



Mickey



-- 

Mickey Coggins

http://www.rv8.ch/

#82007 finishing

_________________
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:06 am Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

At 08:26 AM 2/10/2006 +0100, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>



  > Got a 'net address for their published schematic?

I've scanned one here:



http://rv8.ch/files/Icom%20IC-A200%20Installation%20Instructions.pdf



Basically you want page 5.  Sorry about the huge file size

for those of you not on broadband.  It's about 6MB.


	


    Mmmm . . . pretty cryptic instructions. I'm not sure how

    the intercom feature works since they don't show how to hook

    up a second headset/mic circuit. And for a radio that draws

    2.6A in transmit, the power and grounding requirements are

    a tad hyperbolic.  They also call out requirements in the

    text that are not repeated/illustrated in the drawings.

    I'll study this a bit and see if I can unravel the "code" . . .

    Bob . . .

      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >

      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >

      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >

      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >

      < with experiment.                                      >

      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >

gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:36 am Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

Jerry:

   

  I agree with you that the diagram and instructions are not real clear, but I can help. What do you not understand. We can go over it pin by pin.

   

  First I have to admit you set-up does not make a lot of sense to me. I don't understand the use of two ICOM's A200, no intercom or audio panel.

   

  What kind of plane and use (VFR, IFR). I assume you have a one place plane because you really need a VOX intercom. The ICOM has an intercom but.... 

   

  The built in intercom is really a super simple non-VOX button activated intercom that works independent of transmitting (ie either radio or intercom but not both at the same time, optional toggle switch needs to be installed.)

   

  As far as audio panel, when you have two COMs it is hard to get around but can be done with some simple switches, but you really are limiting the usefulness of two COM's. There are some cheap used audio panels on eBay. You could make a simple switch to select which radio you want to transmit on and feed one radio audio thru the aux input of the other, making one the "master". This is non-standard wiring. I understand the need to listen to two radios at one time, ATC and ATIS for example. However the elegant solution is the Apollo SL40 with two receivers built in, which allows listening to two freqs at the same time. Since you can only transmit on one Freq at a time why two radios. In the old days it was nice to have two radios, so you could store two freqs, one in each radio, but two radios is less an advantage with Flip flop freq features of new radios. The nice thing is to listen to two freqs which the single Apollo SL40 does.

   

  Don't get me wrong the ICOM is awesome, but do you really need two radios? If you do I would consider a audio panel. If you have a two place I would consider an intercom. PS engineering makes a cool little intercom, simple audio panel to handle just two coms.

   

  I sent you an off line email and we can talk about it. 

   

  George (completed two ICOM A200 installations so I am an expert  )



  From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com

Subject: Icom A200-Help!






Listers,



This question has been asked before by others, but replies are unclear. The 

good folks at Icom have put an insufficient (IMO) "wiring diagram" in their 

one sheet fold-out instructions. This is not like the ones we see on this 

list, so they must think we are incapable of reading a "real" one. 



Now that I've vented... Has anyone out there made a genuine one for this 

radio that I can beg, borrow, steal? My setup is with two of these radios, but



with no audio panel.

This might have been a mistake, trying to save weight, time, panel space, 

and $$$...



Jerry Cochran

Wilsonville, OR

		

---------------------------------

wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

I've done several instalations too but never 2 A200s together. I dont doubt 

it can be done simply with switching but cant really see the usefulness.



The schematic in the handbook isn't of much use and mine contains an error 

anyway. As for installing a single A200, I dont support the use of a toggle 

switch.  Much better to use a DPDT push-button switch as the PTT. Wire the 

two headsets up to the intercom mic pin on the A200 using the NC switch 

contacts but with the PIC microphone being switched to the Comms mic pin on 

the A200 once the PTT is pressed.  The co-pilot's mic is wired such that the 

PTT activation grounds it, while also taking the PTT pin on the A200 to 

ground, thus switching the radio from receive to transmit.



All that is probably a little hard to follow and probably demonstrates why 

we use schematics?  I have a smple schematic here somewhere, packed up among 

my yet to be sorted papers. I can probably find it if that would help.



Bill

---

Bill Denton

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 97
Location: Chicago, IL USA

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

Has it been considered that the second radio might only be used for receive

only monitoring?





--

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:16 am Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

At 10:21 AM 2/11/2006 +1100, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com>



I've done several instalations too but never 2 A200s together. I dont doubt

it can be done simply with switching but cant really see the usefulness.



The schematic in the handbook isn't of much use and mine contains an error

anyway. As for installing a single A200, I dont support the use of a toggle

switch.


	


     What is the error you've identified?



     Bob . . .

Jerry Cochran

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: Wilsonville, OR

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:51 am Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

Thanks to all who have answered. I have two reasons for dual A200 Comms.  One 

is I simply like a backup, we do a lot of long cross-countries. Secondly,  

when going into Bravo airspace, I like to have 4 freqs loaded and ready. My  

wife, Susan, is a student pilot who likes to handle the radios, and this makes  

it easy for both of us. We have a flying 6a also with two comms so are used to  

it.. I have received offline help that looks very viable and will report 

back,  hopefully with a schematic. 

 

BTW, after all the effort Bob K has gone to teaching all of us about proper  

schematics, I find it ironic that some manufacturers don't follow the same  

convention. Bob, will you please straighten these guys out??? 

 

Regards,

Jerry Cochran

 

In a message dated 2/11/2006 12:03:51 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  

aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:



From:  "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com>

Subject: Re:  Re: Icom A200-Help!



--> AeroElectric-List message  posted by: "Bill Maxwell" 

<wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com>



I've done  several instalations too but never 2 A200s together. I dont doubt 

it can  be done simply with switching but cant really see the  usefulness.

wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

Been a while since I had looked at it Bob, so I dug the publication from its 

hiding place.  It is actually the Service Manual rather than the handbook 

that comes with the radio, so it may not be applicable to it, unless the 

schematic is repeated there.  I no longer have my copy of  the material that 

was packaged with a radio.

Error is in schematic 5-1 and concerns the memory channel and frequency 

exchange switching.  As drawn, it calls out a 2 position rocker switch or 

similar, with one position offering normally closed contact, the other 

normally open. Correct switching actually requires a spring-loaded rocker or 

separate momentary push switches, in other words both contacts normally 

open, with switching action grounding the required position momentarily.

I reported this finding to Icom Australia and received a printed correction 

slip immediately, indicating that it was a known fault.  That was some 7-8 

years ago so no doubt it has long been corrected in later reprints and as I 

said, it may not occur in the documentation that ships with the radio 

anyway.

I should have added to my previous post the obvious suggestion of using a 

relay to achieve the required intercom/comms function. That is certainly 

easier than trying to install a new PTT swithch with considerable wiring 

hanging from it.

Bill- Original Message ----- 

From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>

To: <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:06 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!

 	  Quote: 	

 <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>

 At 10:21 AM 2/11/2006 +1100, you wrote:

>

><wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com>

>

>I've done several instalations too but never 2 A200s together. I dont 

>doubt

>it can be done simply with switching but cant really see the usefulness.

>

>The schematic in the handbook isn't of much use and mine contains an error

>anyway. As for installing a single A200, I dont support the use of a 

>toggle

>switch.

     What is the error you've identified?

     Bob . . .

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

At 09:58 AM 2/12/2006 +1100, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com>



Been a while since I had looked at it Bob, so I dug the publication from its

hiding place.  It is actually the Service Manual rather than the handbook

that comes with the radio, so it may not be applicable to it, unless the

schematic is repeated there.  I no longer have my copy of  the material that

was packaged with a radio.



Error is in schematic 5-1 and concerns the memory channel and frequency

exchange switching.  As drawn, it calls out a 2 position rocker switch or

similar, with one position offering normally closed contact, the other

normally open. Correct switching actually requires a spring-loaded rocker or

separate momentary push switches, in other words both contacts normally

open, with switching action grounding the required position momentarily.



I reported this finding to Icom Australia and received a printed correction

slip immediately, indicating that it was a known fault.  That was some 7-8

years ago so no doubt it has long been corrected in later reprints and as I

said, it may not occur in the documentation that ships with the radio

anyway.



I should have added to my previous post the obvious suggestion of using a

relay to achieve the required intercom/comms function. That is certainly

easier than trying to install a new PTT swithch with considerable wiring

hanging from it.


	


    A real service manual! I'd love to get a copy.



    The latest wiring on the ICOM website shows two normally

    open, pull-downs to ground for those two functions.



    I needed a break from some other things I was supposed to be

    doing today and threw a little drawing package together. It's

    posted at



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/IC-A200_Icom_Installation_Wiring.pdf



    If folks would care to review it and ask any questions that are not

    answered, suggest additional materials be added or have spotted errors,

    I'd be delighted to get he feedback. I've already found a goof. I'd 

intended

    to show how to "dummy load" the speaker output with an inset on page

    2. I also note that the real model number is IC-A200 which ought to be

    fixed in several places.



    Dee and I are off to dinner with some old friends who used to work with

    us at Videmation when I was rummaging around in train wrecks instead

    of building airplanes.



    Bob . . .

klehman(at)albedo.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

It wasn't obvious to me at first but the dimmer connection actually 

feeds the incandescent panel lighting so it might make sense to feed 

that pin from an instrument light dimmer if convenient.

Ken



Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



At 09:58 AM 2/12/2006 +1100, you wrote:



  



>

><wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com>

>

>Been a while since I had looked at it Bob, so I dug the publication from its

>hiding place.  It is actually the Service Manual rather than the handbook

>that comes with the radio, so it may not be applicable to it, unless the

>schematic is repeated there.  I no longer have my copy of  the material that

>was packaged with a radio.

>

>Error is in schematic 5-1 and concerns the memory channel and frequency

>exchange switching.  As drawn, it calls out a 2 position rocker switch or

>similar, with one position offering normally closed contact, the other

>normally open. Correct switching actually requires a spring-loaded rocker or

>separate momentary push switches, in other words both contacts normally

>open, with switching action grounding the required position momentarily.

>

>I reported this finding to Icom Australia and received a printed correction

>slip immediately, indicating that it was a known fault.  That was some 7-8

>years ago so no doubt it has long been corrected in later reprints and as I

>said, it may not occur in the documentation that ships with the radio

>anyway.

>

>I should have added to my previous post the obvious suggestion of using a

>relay to achieve the required intercom/comms function. That is certainly

>easier than trying to install a new PTT swithch with considerable wiring

>hanging from it.

>    

>



    A real service manual! I'd love to get a copy.



    The latest wiring on the ICOM website shows two normally

    open, pull-downs to ground for those two functions.



    I needed a break from some other things I was supposed to be

    doing today and threw a little drawing package together. It's

    posted at



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/IC-A200_Icom_Installation_Wiring.pdf



    If folks would care to review it and ask any questions that are not

    answered, suggest additional materials be added or have spotted errors,

    I'd be delighted to get he feedback. I've already found a goof. I'd 

intended

    to show how to "dummy load" the speaker output with an inset on page

    2. I also note that the real model number is IC-A200 which ought to be

    fixed in several places.



    Dee and I are off to dinner with some old friends who used to work with

    us at Videmation when I was rummaging around in train wrecks instead

    of building airplanes.



    Bob . . .

wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

I was an Icom dealer at the time I got my service Manual but I suggest that 

you contact Icom US and ask for a copy.  I suspect they will know who you 

are and of your influence in our movement.  If not, they would be well 

advised to find out!



I'll take a look at your drawing after I clear this email backlog.



cheers

Bill

---

wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:48 pm Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

Yes Ken, although I have never had the need to do so as none of my 

installations were in Night VFR or IFR aircraft.  I usually wired that pin 

pair to the 13.8 voltt supply to provide an additional indication that the 

radio was powered up.



Bill

---

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:28 pm Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

At 08:26 PM 2/11/2006 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



It wasn't obvious to me at first but the dimmer connection actually

feeds the incandescent panel lighting so it might make sense to feed

that pin from an instrument light dimmer if convenient.

Ken


	


   From what I understand about the dimmer from the instructions,

   it's a bright/dim discrete. In other words, lighting goes to half

   bright when a voltage is applied to the dimmer pin. Does anyone

   have better data than that?



   Bob . . .

klehman(at)albedo.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:12 am Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

I thought that too until I powered it up and then opened the case to 

check the light bulbs. My unit was purchased last April but I doubt that 

there is more than one version of lighting. Not the greatest instructions.

Ken

Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

At 08:26 PM 2/11/2006 -0500, you wrote:

>

>

>It wasn't obvious to me at first but the dimmer connection actually

>feeds the incandescent panel lighting so it might make sense to feed

>that pin from an instrument light dimmer if convenient.

>Ken

>    

>

   From what I understand about the dimmer from the instructions,

   it's a bright/dim discrete. In other words, lighting goes to half

   bright when a voltage is applied to the dimmer pin. Does anyone

   have better data than that?

   Bob . . .

lehmans(at)sympatico.ca
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:55 am Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

<nuckollsr(at)cox.net>



At 08:26 PM 2/11/2006 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



It wasn't obvious to me at first but the dimmer connection actually

feeds the incandescent panel lighting so it might make sense to feed

that pin from an instrument light dimmer if convenient.

Ken


	


   From what I understand about the dimmer from the instructions,

   it's a bright/dim discrete. In other words, lighting goes to half

   bright when a voltage is applied to the dimmer pin. Does anyone

   have better data than that?



   Bob . . .



My experience with 2 Icom A200 installs (one TSO'd and one non-TSO'd) is

that the radio lighting will dim with the instrument panel light rheostat

control.  It never occurred to me to connect it any other way.



Mike

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

At 02:39 PM 2/12/2006 +1100, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com>



I was an Icom dealer at the time I got my service Manual but I suggest that

you contact Icom US and ask for a copy.  I suspect they will know who you

are and of your influence in our movement.  If not, they would be well

advised to find out!



I'll take a look at your drawing after I clear this email backlog.


	


    Take a peek at the dimming input. Can you confirm that it

    simply drive panel lamps? Also, does it call out normal

    input current to this pin?



    Bob . . .

wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:41 am Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

That peek required a magnifying glass Bob, plus a bright light and a glass 

of scotch.



The dimming circuit doesn't rate a mention in the specifications at all, 

beyond a "+14v (input)"  description in section 5-2 when describing the 

Molex connector pins.



According to the schematic, the input flows through an LC filter, the coil 

value unspecified but described as EXC-ELDR25C and is a component used in 

several other parts of the schematic; the capacitor is 0.0047 uF. The input 

is picked off at the L and C junction. Test voltages at that point are 

called out as 13.5V both in Tx and Rx. It then leads to 2 "lamps" on the 

Main Unit pcb, drawn as incandescent bulbs but described in the parts list 

as LEDs, via an 8.2 ohm resistor.  Those 2 are wired in parallel between the 

tail of that resistor and ground.  They backlight the front panel push 

switches. Test voltages at the junction of the tail of the 8.2 ohm res and 

the paralleled leds is 12.5V, both in Rx and Tx.



A branch before the 8.2 ohm resistor  also feeds a further 6 "lamps",  again 

drawn as incandescent lamps but again described in the parts list as LEDs, 

via an 18 ohm resistor.  These 6 backlight the LCD display panel, wired 3 in 

series, the 2 series networks then wired in parallel between the tail of the 

18 ohm Res. and ground.  These obviously backlight the LCD display on the 

Front Unit. Test voltages at the junction of the led networks and the 18ohm 

are called out as 10.0V on both transmit and receive..



Nothing furter mentioned anywhere but I hope this little helps.  It seems to 

me to be a fairly straightforward linear circuit, lending itself readily to 

dimming by varying the input voltage below the 13.8 volt rail?



Bill

---

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:42 am Post subject: Icom A200-Help!

At 08:34 PM 2/13/2006 +1100, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<wrmaxwell(at)bigpond.com>



That peek required a magnifying glass Bob, plus a bright light and a glass

of scotch.



The dimming circuit doesn't rate a mention in the specifications at all,

beyond a "+14v (input)"  description in section 5-2 when describing the

Molex connector pins.



According to the schematic, the input flows through an LC filter, the coil

value unspecified but described as EXC-ELDR25C and is a component used in

several other parts of the schematic; the capacitor is 0.0047 uF. The input

is picked off at the L and C junction. Test voltages at that point are

called out as 13.5V both in Tx and Rx. It then leads to 2 "lamps" on the

Main Unit pcb, drawn as incandescent bulbs but described in the parts list

as LEDs, via an 8.2 ohm resistor.  Those 2 are wired in parallel between the

tail of that resistor and ground.  They backlight the front panel push

switches. Test voltages at the junction of the tail of the 8.2 ohm res and

the paralleled leds is 12.5V, both in Rx and Tx.



A branch before the 8.2 ohm resistor  also feeds a further 6 "lamps",  again

drawn as incandescent lamps but again described in the parts list as LEDs,

via an 18 ohm resistor.  These 6 backlight the LCD display panel, wired 3 in

series, the 2 series networks then wired in parallel between the tail of the

18 ohm Res. and ground.  These obviously backlight the LCD display on the

Front Unit. Test voltages at the junction of the led networks and the 18ohm

are called out as 10.0V on both transmit and receive..



Nothing furter mentioned anywhere but I hope this little helps.  It seems to

me to be a fairly straightforward linear circuit, lending itself readily to

dimming by varying the input voltage below the 13.8 volt rail?


	


    Agreed. Given the compactness of the package and what we

    know about incandescent lamps, it's logical and likely that

    the resistors serve as many as two purposes. (1) to balance

    levels between the two lighting functions and (2) boost

    life of the lamps. They're probably difficult to replace

    and the prudent designer would do well to strive for very

    long life.  I'll modify my wiring diagram accordingly. Thanks for

    the data dump!



    Bob . . .

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