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tdawson-townsend(at)auror
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 Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:32 am Post subject: Primary instruments |
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William wrote:
“As another message indicated, for the certified aircraft with glass panels, the steam gauges are primary and the EFIS are secondary. They must have good reason for doing this and unless one has data showing otherwise, I'd follow their model.”
This is a fallacy. The EFIS systems in such aircraft as Cirrus ARE the primary instruments, and thus must meet the FAR requirements for them being within the pilots field of view, etc. The mechanical backup instruments are often no longer in the “primary” field of view.
One possible confusion in this case was (historically speaking) that initially the MFD engine instruments on Cirri were not legally the primary engine indicators, as the MFD was certified to software certification level D, whereas critical engine parameters demanded a software certification level C. (so many Cirri have engine instruments on the MFD, but also mechanical versions in the panel) With the addition of these critical engine instruments onto the Avidyne PFD (Level C), that restriction was lifted, and the mechanical engine instruments disappeared from the production line.
Most EFIS systems do have a “magnetic direction indicator”, but the FAA would never let them certify an airplane without a compass on board. Nothing in the FAR says you have to have a backup ADI to your EFIS, either, but expect a lot of grief from the FAA if you tried to certify that setup for production IFR.
TDT
40025
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wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:57 am Post subject: Primary instruments |
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I don't have access to a Cirrus TCDS but I remember reading an article in Flying which stated the same thing--that the steam gauges were primary and the EFIS were supplemental. This was NOT referring to the engine instruments but the EFIS AI/DG. Now I'll have to go check on that.
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
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John Kirkland
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 19
Location: South Weber, UT
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Primary instruments |
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I don't read Flying magazine (except in while waiting for my AME), I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express, but I do fly a Cessna T182T with G1000. The EFIS is primary, the three steam gauges, airpspeed, altimeter, and vacuum driven attitude, are secondary. There are no backups on any of the engine gauges.
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apilot2(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: Primary instruments |
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I'd say the real question is whether the FAA would approve of the
G1000 without the steam gauges. If not, I'd say they are required
equipment and the primary/secondary argument is meaningless. If they
will approve flight with the steam gauges removed or inop, then you
could call them secondary/backup.
On 6/11/07, John Kirkland <jskirkland(at)webpipe.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
I don't read Flying magazine (except in while waiting for my AME), I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express, but I do fly a Cessna T182T with G1000. The EFIS is primary, the three steam gauges, airpspeed, altimeter, and vacuum driven attitude, are secondary. There are no backups on any of the engine gauges.
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Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117823#117823
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:36 am Post subject: Primary instruments |
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Page 10 of the attached PDF, which is Cirrus POH page 2-12, is careful
to not call their ever popular EFIS a PFD but rather a MFD. The table
shows primary gauges to be the foundation both for VFR and IFR ops.
Pages 13 and 14 of the PDF which are Cirrus POH Pages 2-15 and 2-16 are
graphically more specific to the question posed.
There is no doubt their panel is great, but it is not Primary which is
the root of the question. FAR 91.205 becomes important for Experimental
aircraft operating in other than VFR Day ops. So for IFR, the magnetic
indication takes on more importance on a well designed panel.
Ironically, in VFR Day ops onboard an Experimental Civil Aircraft, there
is little requirement for most gauges which well trained pilots have
come to rely on. IMHO.
John
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Download |
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Cirrus_SR22_Sec%2002.pdf |
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163.98 KB |
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400 Time(s) |
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wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject: Primary instruments |
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OK, so for Cirrus, the TCDS defers to the POH and the POH states that the steam gauges are primary and the MFDs (note it does not call them a PFD) is supplemental. Anyone have a POH or TCDS for the G1000 equipped Cessna to see what it says, as opposed to the truthiness?
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
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GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: Primary instruments |
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In a message dated 6/11/2007 5:32:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wcurtis(at)nerv10.com writes:
| Quote: | | Anyone have a POH or TCDS for the G1000 equipped Cessna to see what it says, as opposed to the truthiness? |
On page 7-10 in the 182T Nav III Skylane it say's...Pilot Panel Layout ...the DGU 1040 Primary Flight Display (PDF), centered on the insturment panel in front of the pilot, shows the primary flight instruments during normal operation."
the it goes on to take about start ups and reversionary mode...
So I'd take it that Cessna believes the PDF contains the primary flight instruments...
P
See what's free at AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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