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When to retract the flaps?

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carl(at)flyers.freeserve.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: When to retract the flaps?

Not sure what led you to believe we have a Trigear. G-LABS is one of the 

original Classic monos - Kit 49.



In fact we have Ivan Shaws original Rotax 912 engine out of G-YURO. You 

could call it son of YURO !!!



As regards the flaps question I totally agree that you need to get rid of as 

much drag as possible as soon as possible. However a full retraction of the 

flaps will cause the aircraft to sink (anything up to 100ft). I was warned 

by a very experienced pilot that this was not a clever thing to do 

especially at 200ft.



The other problem with retracting early (especially if you compromise and 

only half retract) is that should the engine stop,  you are likely to forget 

you retracted and set yourself up for  wheels up landing (or crash if 

applicable).



I would say the safest height you should raise the gear is about 300ft and 

in any event I would rather concentrate on flying the plane and seeing where 

we are going. As G-LABS is somewhat underpowered I have to keep the nose 

well down to build up speed (65kts) before commencing the climb.



I always assume there is a chance the engine could stop and on a nil wind 

day it is not uncommon to cross the airfield boundary at 300ft. I would 

NEVER consider turning back under such circumstances. As soon as the 

aircraft is airborne and manouverable I point it at the nearest open space/ 

field (subject to where the gliders are launching and the location of the 

winch).



Carl Pattinson

G-LABS



---

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mikenjulie.parkin(at)btop
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:02 am Post subject: When to retract the flaps?

 	  Quote: 	
		   As regards the flaps question I totally agree that you need to get rid of 

 as much drag as possible as soon as possible. However a full retraction of 

 the flaps will cause the aircraft to sink (anything up to 100ft). I was 

 warned by a very experienced pilot that this was not a clever thing to do 

 especially at 200ft.


	


Carl,



With respect, if you are losing upto 100ft on flap retraction, you are not 

using the best technique.



Holding the same attitude while retracting the flap will result in a 

settling/sink.  However, what one should do is as the flaps are slowly 

retracted, the nose is raised to compensate for the reduction in lift caused 

by the change in configuration.



In my limited experience with my 914 powered Monowheel,  retracting the flap 

never ceases to amaze me, the surge in performance as the wheel and flap 

retract is brilliant.



regards,



Mike

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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:26 am Post subject: When to retract the flaps?

Mike, I normally accelerate in something close to ground effect to a minimum

of 60kts and then progressively over about 2 secs pull up gear and flap.

Never noticed any tendency to sink, simply accelerates and starts to climb

nicely. If the engine goes I don't care too much whether I have got round to

putting the wheel down again. If you have runway to land on the damage is

negligible. If not you have much more serious things to worry about!

           Regards, David Joyce

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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:54 pm Post subject: When to retract the flaps?

 	  Quote: 	
		   Holding the same attitude while retracting the flap will result in a 

 settling/sink.  However, what one should do is as the flaps are slowly 

 retracted, the nose is raised to compensate for the reduction in lift caused 

 by the change in configuration


	


I agree.



I have learnt also to do it (retracting)

almost immeadiately after take-off.

By doing it slowly /gently it is easy & safe.

No notable height loss at all.

Our Europa (Mono of course!) is a real performer 

as a clean (clean only!!!)  - so it must be clean asap after take-off.



 	  Quote: 	
		   In my limited experience with my 914 powered Monowheel,  retracting the flap 

 never ceases to amaze me, the surge in performance as the wheel and flap 

 retract is brilliant.


	


In my VERY limited experience (912S), just confirm, REALLY.



One can ask: what to do if emergency landing gear retracted

(when doing "too early" in  take-off)?



"So what" is my answer! It is easy and fast to lower and in the other

hand, Europa has a slippery boat-like-body to land w/o gear.



Happy landings.



Regards, Raimo

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carl(at)flyers.freeserve.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: When to retract the flaps?

Thanks for the tip - will give it a try.



Not sure though why you would need to bother with a 914 and I would guess a 

VP prop. It goes up like a rocket anyway.



Carl



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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: When to retract the flaps?

Carl

Mike is right, I used virtually the same technique, As soon as positive 

rate of climb is confirmed at around 2 to 300 ft unlock the 

indercarriage and start slowly retractiong the flaps allowing the 

airplane to maintain its trim. This resulted in a smooth transition from 

65 kt climb with flap to 80kt climb without, and no height loss when 

raising the flaps. There should be no trim change from flaps down at 60 

kts to flaps up at 80kts, but there is an attitude chage of course.

You should find that flaps will settle anywhere in the range because 

there is no load on the lever except the load of the undercarriage, 

which is taken by the shock chords. If they don't then you need to 

adjust the shock chords

Graham



Mike Parkin wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Holding the same attitude while retracting the flap will result in a 

 settling/sink.  However, what one should do is as the flaps are slowly 

 retracted, the nose is raised to compensate for the reduction in lift 

 caused by the change in configuration.

 

 In my limited experience with my 914 powered Monowheel,  retracting the 

 flap never ceases to amaze me, the surge in performance as the wheel and 

 flap retract is brilliant.

 

 regards,

 

 Mike

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