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Wings options

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hansriet

Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 93

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:31 am Post subject: Wings options

I'm about ready to order the wings for my Zodiac XL kit and I would like some insights on the options.



Having flown with the Canadian flex-aileron equipped demonstrator, I'm pretty much set on the piano-hinge option.



But what about the wing lockers? Will I need the extra space, especially when I'm thinking of installing a BRS parachute in the luggage area?



Long range tanks or not? Even in our Cessna Cardinal I never fly longer than 2.5 hours. Do I need the extra range or safe some weight with full tanks?



I was thinking of installing wig-wag lights. Shall I order an extra lens, riblet and channel and install this mirrored in the opposite wing?



Your thought are greatly appreciated.



Hans van Riet

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Wings options

Weight in the wing lockers have a LOT less moment than anything put in the back luggage area and that is a good thing. Especially if you are going to hard mount 25 lbs. in the back.



If you never fly more than 2.5 hours why would even consider the long range tanks? The 12 gallon tanks give you 4+ hours at 5 gph.

 	  hansriet wrote: 	
		  I'm about ready to order the wings for my Zodiac XL kit and I would like some insights on the options.



Having flown with the Canadian flex-aileron equipped demonstrator, I'm pretty much set on the piano-hinge option.



But what about the wing lockers? Will I need the extra space, especially when I'm thinking of installing a BRS parachute in the luggage area?



Long range tanks or not? Even in our Cessna Cardinal I never fly longer than 2.5 hours. Do I need the extra range or safe some weight with full tanks?



I was thinking of installing wig-wag lights. Shall I order an extra lens, riblet and channel and install this mirrored in the opposite wing?



Your thought are greatly appreciated.



Hans van Riet

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

stutzman(at)stutzman.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:35 am Post subject: Wings options

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007, Gig Giacona wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   If you never fly more than 2.5 hours why would even consider the long 

 range tanks? The 12 gallon tanks give you 4+ hours at 5 gph.


	


Probably for the same reason you see a lot of tip tanks on high 

performance singles.



It really reduces operational costs when you have the ability to 

load up on cheap fuel when the opportunity arises.



Frank Stutzman

601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:41 am Post subject: Wings options

I've been places where the price of fuel has made me wish I could have 

brought more along.



Do not archive.



---

crvsecretary

Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 38
Location: Naugatuck, CT

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:45 am Post subject: Wings options

Hello Hans:

  

 IMHO, wing lockers are a must for all the reasons mentioned  previously.

  

 RE: Long-range tanks - just remember, you don't HAVE to fill them up all  the way all the time - just when you want extra fuel on board.  It's not an  option you can easily add later, do if it's in the budget, do it NOW,

  

 You have the same thoughts as I RE: wig-wag lights.  Here's a thought:  I assume you successfully built your rudder and stab by now and you're getting  pretty good at all this, right ???  By the time you finish the first wing  your skill set will be even further along...so why not wait until you're ready  to order up those extra parts for the extra light....you might feel confident  enough to SCRATCH-BUILD your first parts.

  

 Just my  $0.02

  

 Tracy Smith

 N458XL (reserved)

 601XL

 working on wings - forever

 do not archive

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 6/22/2007 9:32:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,  hansinla(at)mac.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: Hans van Riet    <hansinla(at)mac.com>



I'm about ready to order the wings for my    Zodiac XL kit and I would like some insights on the options.



Having    flown with the Canadian flex-aileron equipped demonstrator, I'm pretty much    set on the piano-hinge option.



But what about the wing lockers? Will I    need the extra space, especially when I'm thinking of installing a BRS    parachute in the luggage area?



Long range tanks or not? Even in our    Cessna Cardinal I never fly longer than 2.5 hours. Do I need the extra range    or safe some weight with full tanks?



I was thinking of installing    wig-wag lights. Shall I order an extra lens, riblet and channel and install    this mirrored in the opposite wing?



Your thought are greatly    appreciated.



Hans van Riet



	


 

  



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

_________________
Zenith 601XL N458XL (reserved)
Naugatuck, CT
Tail Complete; working on wings

gscampoli(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:28 am Post subject: Wings options

Hans,



My first instructor taught me that there is nothing less valuable to a pilot 

than runway behind you, altitude above you or fuel left on the ground.



If you are certain that you are NEVER going to fly more than 2 1/2 hour 

legs, standard tanks are the way to go.  But, on an extended cross-country, 

eliminating a fuel stop or two can save a lot of time and, believe it or 

not, fuel.  You can always fill the tanks only half full for the short 

jaunts and eliminate the weight penalty, but it's really convenient to have 

the ability to extend your cross-country legs to 3 1/2 to 4 hours.



In my case though, my kidney will  usually force a stop long before the fuel 

runs low.



Blue skies,



Gerry Scampoli

Hingham, MA

601XL - Corvair

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Hans van Riet <hansinla(at)mac.com>


	




 	  Quote: 	
		  Long range tanks or not? Even in our Cessna Cardinal I never fly longer 

than 2.5 hours. Do I need the extra range or safe some weight with full 

tanks?


	


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Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:32 am Post subject: Wings options

Hans

I chose to go with the wing lockers even without a BRS parachute, because 

the Zenith folks tell me that the main baggage area is limited to 40 lbs. 

That is about what I used to carry in my pack when backpacking--not much 

for two people. I chose to go with the standard 12 gal tanks, mostly 

because I didn't want the extra weight, and, as Gig points out, 4 hrs is 

about as long as I'm likely to fly. Finally, regarding the wig-wag lights, 

I just bought a lens from Zenith which I plan to cut in half, one piece for 

each wing. Then I plan to scratch build a mounting plate for HID landing 

and taxi lights, probably 35W units from Creativair. I'm assuming that the 

small HID lights will do fine with half a lens. I haven't worked out the 

final design. I hope it will all fit together.

Of course, I'm still working on my rudder, so my wig-wag plans are long way 

from fruition.

Terry

At 09:58 AM 6/22/2007 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Weight in the wing lockers have a LOT less moment than anything put in the 

back luggage area and that is a good thing. Especially if you are going to 

hard mount 25 lbs. in the back.

If you never fly more than 2.5 hours why would even consider the long 

range tanks? The 12 gallon tanks give you 4+ hours at 5 gph.

hansriet wrote:

 > I'm about ready to order the wings for my Zodiac XL kit and I would 

 like some insights on the options.

 >

 > Having flown with the Canadian flex-aileron equipped demonstrator, I'm 

 pretty much set on the piano-hinge option.

 >

 > But what about the wing lockers? Will I need the extra space, 

 especially when I'm thinking of installing a BRS parachute in the luggage area?

 >

 > Long range tanks or not? Even in our Cessna Cardinal I never fly longer 

 than 2.5 hours. Do I need the extra range or safe some weight with full tanks?

 >

 > I was thinking of installing wig-wag lights. Shall I order an extra 

 lens, riblet and channel and install this mirrored in the opposite wing?

 >

 > Your thought are greatly appreciated.

 >

 > Hans van Riet

Terry Phillips

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

Just starting a 601 kit

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Wings options

The long range tanks are 15 gallon, right? So we are talking 6 extra gallons. If your normal fuel price is say $3.50 and where you are going is double that you are only saving $22.00.



Plus fully fueled it is an additional ~36lbs and I like to be fully fueled.



 	  stutzman(at)stutzman.com wrote: 	
		  

Probably for the same reason you see a lot of tip tanks on high 

performance singles.



It really reduces operational costs when you have the ability to 

load up on cheap fuel when the opportunity arises.



Frank Stutzman

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: Wings options

"wing options"



Hans--



I agree the hinge aileron is the way to go ,I did.



The "long range " tanks are also a good option to have. They were not 

available when I got my kit. The only option then was two 12 gallon tanks in 

  each wing which complicated the fuel valve too much for me. The extra 6 

gallons capacity is good to have.



I installed a wigwag, but instead of using a light in each wing, I wigwaged 

the taxi and landing lights that are adjacent to each other.

Good luck

George May

601XL  912s---92 hours



_________________________________________________________________

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http://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Wings options

I went with the hingless ailerons.  



I bought the wing locker option, but am having second thoughts about installing it.  Haven't closed my top skins yet, so I can still change my mind...



Went with the 15 gallon tanks - thinking cross country weekends to airports with no fuel.  Mostly peace of mind.



Am considering a BRS.  Might mount my battery ahead of the firewall for CG, but that's a ways in the future for me.



Probably as many different configuration ideas as there are builders   



Patrick

XL/Corvair

chris Sinfield

Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 270
Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Wings options

Hi 

Chris from Down Under with an XL kit.



I went with the wing lockers, yes they are thinner than the thick wing HD,s, but for the small cost they make a great option available to the pilot when it comes to W&B. 



I went with Long range tanks only because down here sometimes you have to buy AVGAS in 44 Gal drums at a time and what you dont take in your plane is left for the locals ( see them que up for free fuel for their cars) With the wing lockers I have seen mods to make it a spare fuel can area. Its up to you and your spacific needs, it is more money and you dont get a credit for not having the normal tanks. 2.5 hours in a Cessna cardinal ver's XL  is very different so take a long look at range req Vs speed/time.



I put strobes on only because I will be flying at night ,what are you going to be using your Aircraft for? it is always an option to wire it up and decide later. I put my strobe power suppys out at the wing tip.



I also stayed with the hingless design for 2 reasons, and I am a flight engineer on big aircraft.  I dont want to do aerobatics I am happy with the feel. It is also a very good talking point amongst the rest of the aero engineers at work they are amazed and roll their eyes till they look at the data from Chris H. then all agree its save simple and easy.



Horses for courses.

Chris.

hansriet

Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 93

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Wings options

Thank your all for your insights. This is a fantastic group.



Hans

dave.thompson(at)verizon.
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:49 am Post subject: Wings options

I don’t know from first hand experience but… I discussed the pros and cons of  the flex skin hinge and actual hinges on the ailerons with both Gus of Flycorvair and Mark Townsend of Can-Zac. The Flycorvair “Zenvair” was initially built with flex skin. They later changed out to hinges. Gus said that the hinges provided more responsiveness with less stick pressure than the flex skin. The flex skin has a tendency to want to center the stick, causing a little bit more stick pressure to move it. That’s pretty much what Mark said too. However, Mark stated that the flex skin will fly more “hands off” where the hinges requires a little more attention to the stick. He said that if you intend to fly cross country most of the time, use flex skin. If you just want to just “play around” the hinges will give you more responsiveness. Take this as second hand information. However, if you think of it, those statements make sense. I’d like to hear other opinions.  

   

As for the long range tanks, my personal opinion is that you don’t have to fill them up every flight. If you need to save weight, make more stops. If you want to fly cross country, carry less baggage. What’s the empty weight difference of the short range tanks verses the long range tanks? The same train of thought can be used with the baggage lockers.   

   

Guys, please correct me if I am thinking wrong.  

   

Dave Thompson  

Westminster,  CA  

        [quote][b]

alex_01

Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 33

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Wings options

hello hans 

i fly a 601 xl but is was RTF from CZAW (my allready second xl) for the wing lockers you should denfintly build then they are so hand for the extra space.

If you consider a BRS the standard installation on the CZAW build planes is on the RH Front on the co pilots  side. so no restrictions for baggage room 

we in Germany have to use a rescue system it is compulsory for us here.

for more info please contact me.



if you install a rotax 912s you can fly approx 6hrs with the 90ltr tanks but it is nice to have more incase you can buy fuel cheap

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