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Savannah174(at)msn.com
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 Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject: Fuel Octane for 912 Engine with Ethanol |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> I'm flying a Savannah with a Rotax 912S and using Sunoco 93 octane. It seems to be working fine but have some reservations of using it due to 10% Ethanol added. There are some serious debates over this at my flying field which leaves me confused. What say you all about this subject?
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daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:32 am Post subject: Fuel Octane for 912 Engine with Ethanol |
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In Ontario the Shell Super 91 octane so far does not have any ethanol. Regular is 10%, "silver" is 5%. I'm staying away from the ethanol for now.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
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Sjklerks(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:17 am Post subject: Fuel Octane for 912 Engine with Ethanol |
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Hi Dave, I have a letter from Shell and they are not going to put Ethanol in their super 91 fuel here in Ontario.
[quote][b]
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Octane for 912 Engine with Ethanol |
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Hi Savannah,
I had heard all the same rumors. Bottom line right from Eric Tucker at a Rotax class was, don't be afraid to use it as some ares in the world that use Rotax engines, like Europe, can run as much as 17%. It won't hurt the engine according to Rotax's class. His only worry was that if you fly above 8K ft. and you happen to have water in the ethanol that it might come out of solution and cause a slug of water to hit the engine and stop it. That being said that is a lot of water to come out of solution. Some call this phase seperation. Eric stated that if you are going to be flying above the 8K mark then he would like to see 100LL or no ethanol. I some parts of the US there is no ethanol in the fuel. In Tucson, Az. we only have ethanol during the winter months. This time of year it is hot here so I regularly fly above 8K without any issues with 91 oct and so do quite a few others.
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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
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Savannah174(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: Fuel Octane for 912 Engine with Ethanol |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Hi Roger,
Well!!!!!! That’s good news, hgells bells I rarely fly above 3,000ft only because I'm in and around the Boston class B and TFR for a Nuke plant, but I've also been informed that KPYM does sell fuel at the airport without ethanol, so it seems that I do have choices. Rog how was that Rotax engine course? where was it held and would you recommend it? Cheers,
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rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: Fuel Octane for 912 Engine with Ethanol |
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Hello Roger
"if you fly above 8K ft. and you happen to have water in the ethanol that
it might come out of solution and cause a slug of water to hit the engine
and stop it."
What if you added some Isopropynol to Mogas before flying to altitude to
keep any water in solution?
Ron Parigoris
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Octane for 912 Engine with Ethanol |
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Hi Ron,
You will still have three different liquids to deal with and each will have different partial and vapor pressures. This solution of liquids can still seperate under the right conditions. You are better off using straight gas, either 91 octane or 100LL. The water will settle out of the gas to your low point bleed. If I only had 91 octane with 5%-10% ethanol and wasn't flying at high altitude I don't think I would worry to much. That being said, we don't have ethanol in our gas in the summer here. It won't hurt your engine.
I took the class in California at CPS and Eric Tucker from Rotax taught the class. I found it very informative. It was $299 if you are an EAA member or $399 for non-members.
Seems like some older 912 engine info and myths gets mixed with the newer versions of the 912.
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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Octane for 912 Engine with Ethanol |
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Hi Guys,
Just read in this mornings newspaper that several organizations are pushing for 20% ethanol in our fuel. 20% won't be good.
5-10% well, ok, if we have too, but not 20%. Let's hope this doesn't come to pass.
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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056 |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject: Fuel Octane for 912 Engine with ethanol |
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What are the idiots excuse for the ethanol contamination??? Less carbon
into the atmosphere??? Maybe if you don't count all the CO2 given off in the
fermentation process. Maybe a saving in fossil fuels??? Only if you don't
count the Diesel fuel used in the growing and shipping process...not to
mention the distillation process.
Ethanol should be used for cleaning... It's corrosive enough to clean
anything or drinking. You shouldn't get drinking and driving confused. The
only other thing ethanol is good for is buying votes in farm country. In a
few years they will wonder what kind of insanity was occurring with this
ethanol fiasco.
Once again Ethanol is a lot less than a stop gap and a million miles from an
answer!
Do yourself a favour kick scream and other wise try to legally dissuade the
morons from ethanol contamination.
I haven't even gotten close to the reasons it should not go into any
airplane.
Noel
| Quote: | Subject: Re: Fuel Octane for 912 Engine
with Ethanol
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>
Hi Guys,
Just read in this mornings newspaper that several
organizations are pushing for
20% ethanol in our fuel. 20% won't be good.
5-10% well, ok, if we have too, but not 20%. Let's hope this
doesn't come to pass.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
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