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mikenjulie.parkin(at)btin
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 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:39 am Post subject: Europa Tailplane. |
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All,
Bob, it was not my intention to tie in your modification with anything. I was merely pointing out that the poor design had required modifications such as your clamp and the increased diameter pins. I appreciate that you want to get flying again and my suggestion was not meant as the only answer. Plainly, the PFA in consultation Europa(2004) will devise a mod or series of mods to solve the immediate problem. However, in the longer term I do believe that the pitch control needs modification. New kits certainly need to have a system that is stronger and more durable. Perhaps along the lines that Graham is suggesting. Certainly Carls pin idea and the latch system discussed are all worthy of consideration for a long term fix for the current system.
Jos, all you say is true. However these tens of thousands of hours have been amassed by a large number of low hour aircraft. As we get more high hour europas around, the problem is likely to become worse. The subject of sloppy tailplanes/pilot error and what we accept as serviceable to fly needs to be carefully worded, europa owners are not the only people to read the messages on this site. I think we would all be wise to avoid any pre-judging of William's tragic accident.
My tailplanes have neglible play and the original pip pin holes were done in accordance with the manual. However, for aircraft that have shown wear, the tolerance allowed for the play between the tailplanes seems excessive to me. Can you imagine accepting such a movement between split elevators on a metal aircraft - certified or not. The standard of homebuilt europas will naturally vary with the ability of the builder. Therefore, I think it is essential to design a build for the lowest common denominator. The inspector should be the standards man, but with the utmost respect for our inspectors, there is variation there also. Why not have a re-designed system that takes the requirement for a subjective assessment out of the loop altogether.
I am not suggesting that there is anything wrong with improving the current tailplane configuration such that it satisfies the airworthiness requirements. I will be implementing those improvements along with everyone else. For those operators who consider that to be enough, then it is not for me to comment on their decision.
My major point is that I would like to see a modified pitch system that does not have any slop, that will provide a rugged tailplane that will stand up to rough grass strips for a long time and many hours. Obviously, the cost of new tailplanes will be considered an unnecessary expense by some people and that is up to them.
If Europa(2004) design an improved torque tube, tailplanes and retention system. They can put me down as No1 on the list - NOW.
regards,
Mike
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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josok-e(at)ukolo.fi
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:06 am Post subject: Europa Tailplane. |
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Mike,
In my humble opinion, part of the equation is the "PFA inspector approved" mentality. With all respect, a close to perfect system like you have in the UK, might put pilots to sleep, and make them less critical on what they rely their own and others life on.
It's a tendency, for the authorities to take responsibility for the well-being of the individual away from that individual. In traffic, safety belts and crash helmets save lives. But by making them obligatory, the line is crossed. It makes folk think it's the authorities who are to blame if you walk head on into a lamp post. Should those not be cushioned? Cushioned lamp post probably would save lives... I mean in the end it's a pilots decision, flyable or not. And for that all the facts, and an open discussion, available for everybody is needed. Already now became clear that some pilots do not have a clue about why and how their planes stay in the air. Shocking really! Hopefully the general level of knowledge is improved now.
Remains the fact, that we have to wait for some official outcome of all those facts we are happily taking for granted here.
And have some fresh discussion afterward.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:04 pm Post subject: Europa Tailplane. |
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Hi! Mike
It wasn’t you who caused my concern, I felt that Jos’s message could be read implicating my clamps (he must be excused because of the language punctuation anyway) I need to come out of my box on the clamp issue to speak for the clients who have invested in them.
However ….I’d like to proffer some assistance to those still to do Mod 73.
The major problem is locating the pip pin hole underside of the tail plane, especially if not drilled vertically (like mine :- my reason was to not have two holes through the torque tube in the same plane to improve the torque tube operational strength or that was the theory!) So mine were drilled at quite an angle and had no drain hole since they have a water tight screw cap fitted. To drill through from the top hole would have punctured the bottom skin miles from the required bush.)
In the case of G-PTAG to locate the outboard rib was no problem, a strong light across the surface shows up the minute ripple in the surface under which is the rib. (wasn’t there when the finishing and painting was done but like the fuel filler straps does begin to show externally over long term curing time)
The big problem is finding the torque tube alignment …….I’m wishing I’d thought of this before I invaded my first tail plane ! Two quite experienced eyes aligned mine but weren’t sufficiently accurate and I’m amazed how far out in the 12” distance we were….I found the rib as above but was initially digging the wrong way for the bush, my construction will be therefore larger.
Now to the reliable fix of finding the tube alignment:- get a 5ft or 6ft wooden lath (about 5/8 “ thick) with straight edges which snugly fits the inside of the tail plane bushes . Carefully stand the tail plane on it’s outboard end and insert the lath down the hole through the bushes to engage with the inner bush then hang a builders plumb bob from the top forward edge of the lath (with a drawing pin) to just clear the close out flange by leaning the tail plane slightly towards the under surface, align the plumb bob line with the same edge of the lath by now tilting the tail plane in the 90 deg direction. The resultant plumb bob line line will indicate the location of the forward edge of the torque tube.
Measure ¾” back from the line will indicate the bush centre line.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG …..lay up of Mod 73 to still do (excavation complete!)
PS. MY bushes are/were still fixed solid, with hacksaw abrasion being the original method used . (Not now so sure about the breaking of the original bond by removal of the existing flox though !????)
Robt.C.Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Parkin
Sent: 17 July 2007 11:38
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Europa Tailplane.
All,
Bob, it was not my intention to tie in your modification with anything. I was merely pointing out that the poor design had required modifications such as your clamp and the increased diameter pins. I appreciate that you want to get flying again and my suggestion was not meant as the only answer. Plainly, the PFA in consultation Europa(2004) will devise a mod or series of mods to solve the immediate problem. However, in the longer term I do believe that the pitch control needs modification. New kits certainly need to have a system that is stronger and more durable. Perhaps along the lines that Graham is suggesting. Certainly Carls pin idea and the latch system discussed are all worthy of consideration for a long term fix for the current system.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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