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Bryan Allsop
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 78
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 Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: TP6 Bonding Survey |
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Whilst I can see the attractions of carrying out Richards suggestion for a live listing of mod 73 findings, I feel that it will fall a long way short of what I had in mind. In the long term there are three problems with it.
1. Time scale. It could take a while for some people to complete the mod. In that time most will loose the motivation to participate inthe survey.
2. Confidentiality. Many people may not wish to have details of their aircrafts's shortcomigs on public display. In which case any bond failures are less likely to be reported.
3. Completeness. Since we would have no way of knowing how complete the feedback is, we would never know when the survey has any value. It would be nice to have 100% response.
I feel that any survey should be authorised by our committee. The committee has a full list of Euopas, and their owners. It will be easy to establish when a response is missing. Members can respond in confidence knowing that aircraft details will not be shown with the results. Sorry Mike, it sounds like a job for the Safety Officer.
It should be remembered that many aircraft will not be modified by their owners, the info may have to come from the inspectors, or the people employed to carry out the mod., via the owner.
Perhaps responses should be listed against age, model of Europa (are Monos less vulnerable, or Classics, or Trikes).
OK, it sounds rather ponderous now. Sorry about that.
Regrds to all.
Bryan Allsop G BYSA
Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one place! Find it! [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Brian Davies
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: uk
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:09 pm Post subject: TP6 Bonding Survey |
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Hi Bryan,
I will leave the safety officer to respond fully , but please be aware that we have about 400 members in the Europa Club worldwide and approximately 1000 kits sold, so we have no way of getting the complete picture. Also. not every owner follows this listing. I do have some information on kits sold to non members but it is very out of date and could not be trusted to give an accurate picture of current ownership or build state.
Brian Davies. Europa Club membership sec.
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bryan allsop
Sent: 20 July 2007 21:05
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: TP6 Bonding Survey
Whilst I can see the attractions of carrying out Richards suggestion for a live listing of mod 73 findings, I feel that it will fall a long way short of what I had in mind. In the long term there are three problems with it.
1. Time scale. It could take a while for some people to complete the mod. In that time most will loose the motivation to participate inthe survey.
2. Confidentiality. Many people may not wish to have details of their aircrafts's shortcomigs on public display. In which case any bond failures are less likely to be reported.
3. Completeness. Since we would have no way of knowing how complete the feedback is, we would never know when the survey has any value. It would be nice to have 100% response.
I feel that any survey should be authorised by our committee. The committee has a full list of Euopas, and their owners. It will be easy to establish when a response is missing. Members can respond in confidence knowing that aircraft details will not be shown with the results. Sorry Mike, it sounds like a job for the Safety Officer.
It should be remembered that many aircraft will not be modified by their owners, the info may have to come from the inspectors, or the people employed to carry out the mod., via the owner.
Perhaps responses should be listed against age, model of Europa (are Monos less vulnerable, or Classics, or Trikes).
OK, it sounds rather ponderous now. Sorry about that.
Regrds to all.
Bryan Allsop G BYSA
Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one place! Find it! [quote][b] href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com Free Date: 19/07/2007 18:10
19/07/2007 18:10
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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carl(at)flyers.freeserve.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: TP6 Bonding Survey |
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I dont want to knock anybodys worthy efforts in compiling a list of Mod 73'ers but I agree whole heartedly that this job would be better handled by the Europa club committee.
My pesonal view (which I have stated before) is that inspectors should be required report irregularities/ problems as a matter of routine to either the PFA or the aircraft manfacturer so that results can be collated and potential accidents pre-empted. Unfortunately this isnt going to happen.
I agree that confidentiality is a big issue and those of us who find irregularities may choose not add their details to the list. This will create the impression that everything in the garden is rosy when it may in fact not be.
Another complication is that some of us (me included) may choose to fly off the 10 hours allowed before undertaking the work so it may be some time before a complete list is compiled.
Finally many Europa owners are not membersof this forum so will be excluded from the survey.
The only way to produce a meaningful survey would be for the factory to require all Europa owners to participate in the survey which would be collated by either themselves or the PFA. The advantage of channeling this exercise through the Europa club (assuming they would accept the task) is that individual annonymity could be guaranteed and only the figures need be reported back to the authorities.
I am totally in favour with your proposal Bryan but I will be happy to add my details to the current list if the EC arent able step into the breach.
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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riddon(at)sent.com
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:59 pm Post subject: TP6 Bonding Survey |
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OK I know it is not going to be complete and maybe those who do have problems may not want it known. It is a start however and it already gives me a little more confidence knowing that all those who have responded so far have had no problems with disbonding etc.
As I said, if anyone has a better idea or someone from the EC wants to take it on, please do so.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Pattinson
Sent: 20 July 2007 23:23
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: TP6 Bonding Survey
I dont want to knock anybodys worthy efforts in compiling a list of Mod 73'ers but I agree whole heartedly that this job would be better handled by the Europa club committee.
My pesonal view (which I have stated before) is that inspectors should be required report irregularities/ problems as a matter of routine to either the PFA or the aircraft manfacturer so that results can be collated and potential accidents pre-empted. Unfortunately this isnt going to happen.
I agree that confidentiality is a big issue and those of us who find irregularities may choose not add their details to the list. This will create the impression that everything in the garden is rosy when it may in fact not be.
Another complication is that some of us (me included) may choose to fly off the 10 hours allowed before undertaking the work so it may be some time before a complete list is compiled.
Finally many Europa owners are not membersof this forum so will be excluded from the survey.
The only way to produce a meaningful survey would be for the factory to require all Europa owners to participate in the survey which would be collated by either themselves or the PFA. The advantage of channeling this exercise through the Europa club (assuming they would accept the task) is that individual annonymity could be guaranteed and only the figures need be reported back to the authorities.
I am totally in favour with your proposal Bryan but I will be happy to add my details to the current list if the EC arent able step into the breach.
18/07/2007 15:30
18/07/2007 15:30
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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alan(at)kestrel-insurance
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject: TP6 Bonding Survey |
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Hi Richard
It’s an excellent start and gives me confidence also keep it up.
Cheers
Alan
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Iddon
Sent: 21 July 2007 07:56
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: TP6 Bonding Survey
OK I know it is not going to be complete and maybe those who do have problems may not want it known. It is a start however and it already gives me a little more confidence knowing that all those who have responded so far have had no problems with disbonding etc.
As I said, if anyone has a better idea or someone from the EC wants to take it on, please do so.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
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| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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