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dkbrooks(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: Comparative "brand" question... |
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Please don't let this dissolve in to a brand flame fest - I am really trying to get honest, grounded opinions, not flames.
First the back story: I became interested in building an LSA, low-and-slow aircraft a couple of years ago when a friend of mine pointed me at the RANS S7. I poked around, read what I could find on the web and eventually stumbled on the RANS yahoo group. I have been a member of that group ever since and I have to say that it is as good a community of folks as you find here. They are just as passionate about flying, building, and especially their 'brand' of choice.
I was very close to pulling the trigger on ordering a Super6 kit with 912ULS engine when a friend forwarded along a link to a video of a 701 doing takeoffs and landings from what looked like a small ramp in front of a hanger. Since my ultimate goal is to put a plane on floats, this was obviously and intriguing to me. Poking around the web again finally brought me to this list - and I am just as impressed with the quality of the help, the information and, again, the passion for the brand. (If anything, the builders on this list tend to be more hard core in that there are lots of folks here building from plans and that just doesn't happen with the RANS planes.)
So my question to the group is this: what is the general opinion of the quality, utility and "flyability" of the RANS planes? I know that this is a little like comparing apples to oranges in that most of the RANS line is fabric covered (the new S19 which just flew for the first time will be all hard skinned), but I would like to hear what you all have to say about the quality of the planes once they are complete and what you may have heard about the the quality of the kits.
I am still thinking that a 701 on amphibious floats would add up to a really nice way to spend a summer day, but there is a part of my brain still rather romantically stuck on the "stick and fabric" S6 and S7.
Thanks,
Dave
[quote][b]
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psm(at)ATT.NET
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: Comparative "brand" question... |
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Hi Dave,
I don't know much about Rans designs or the 701, but I might be able
to add some good questions to the discussion.
As far as I know the biggest difference between Rans designs and
Heintz designs is the construction method. I think the Rans designs
are based on steel tubing and fabric covering. The Heintz designs
are "All metal" meaning virtually all the parts are made from either
aluminum or steel with steel used only for a few critical parts. The
other big difference you mentioned - the availability of plans
building vs. factory kits which include a great deal of the
construction already done. I think I remember the Rans kits come
with welded fuselages.
I recently read an interesting article about aircraft design which
pointed out that seaplanes require a lot more elevator control for
those water landings and takeoffs. This could be a factor in
choosing a design if it is floats that you are after.
Now for some of those questions I mentioned:
1. Where will the plane be built and stored? Will it be hangared? I
understand it is a poor idea to store a fabric covered plane out in
the weather. Does local weather (for example humidity) play an
important role in the plane's structure choice?
2. What are the requirements of the builder? If it is low and slow,
then that might lean toward one particular design over another
because of the low and slow performance.
3. What skills does the builder already possess? Does this include
any of the skills one design uses that the other one
doesn't? Obvious differences to consider are fabric work vs. sheet metal work.
4. What designs are other local builders building? Perhaps a local
community of builders working on similar designs will make the
decision lean toward one design or type of construction.
5. What do local EAA members suggest? Again the local people and
environment factors are important.
I hope this helps a little.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 07:50 PM 7/27/2007, you wrote:
| Quote: | Please don't let this dissolve in to a brand flame fest - I am
really trying to get honest, grounded opinions, not flames.
First the back story: I became interested in building an LSA,
low-and-slow aircraft a couple of years ago when a friend of mine
pointed me at the RANS S7. I poked around, read what I could find
on the web and eventually stumbled on the RANS yahoo group. I have
been a member of that group ever since and I have to say that it is
as good a community of folks as you find here. They are just as
passionate about flying, building, and especially their 'brand' of choice.
I was very close to pulling the trigger on ordering a Super6 kit
with 912ULS engine when a friend forwarded along a link to a video
of a 701 doing takeoffs and landings from what looked like a small
ramp in front of a hanger. Since my ultimate goal is to put a plane
on floats, this was obviously and intriguing to me. Poking around
the web again finally brought me to this list - and I am just as
impressed with the quality of the help, the information and, again,
the passion for the brand. (If anything, the builders on this list
tend to be more hard core in that there are lots of folks here
building from plans and that just doesn't happen with the RANS planes.)
So my question to the group is this: what is the general opinion of
the quality, utility and "flyability" of the RANS planes? I know
that this is a little like comparing apples to oranges in that most
of the RANS line is fabric covered (the new S19 which just flew for
the first time will be all hard skinned), but I would like to hear
what you all have to say about the quality of the planes once they
are complete and what you may have heard about the the quality of the kits.
I am still thinking that a 701 on amphibious floats would add up to
a really nice way to spend a summer day, but there is a part of my
brain still rather romantically stuck on the "stick and fabric" S6 and S7.
Thanks,
Dave
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jetboy
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 233
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Comparative |
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Dave,
I've only been close during the construction (assembly) stages of one S-6es kit and a couple of S-14? the single seat arrowhead.
They were all excellent quality and flew very well, the S-6 is respected as a dependable machine around here as our winters are not too cold, they represent good value for basic flying.
I chose a CH701 for the particular characteristics it has, and the ability for outside storage which it occasionally has to suffer, without having to changeout the fabric every few years. Previously operated a couple of Bantam microlights, they were Ok but open and part wire braced - just wanted a bit more comfort and 4 stroke power. I'm sure I would be happy with a Coyote, for floats I would definitely go the 701 route.
The S-6 takes 3 months to assemble, without hurry.
Ralph
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Ralph - CH701 / 2200a |
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Ron Lendon
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:20 am Post subject: Re: Comparative |
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I am building a 601xl but one thing to know about the Heintz designs is, "One person can do most of the work alone". I asked him this question this year at SnF and he confirmed, it was planned that way.
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_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
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larry(at)macsmachine.com
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:56 pm Post subject: Comparative "brand" question... |
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Hi David,
On looking at RANS aircraft and performance specs, I can appreciate why
you'd be taken by the S6. It's a clean design that is nicely done,
flies faster and farther than
the 701 with the same engine. It wouldn't land or take off in anything
as short as the 701 and the 701 will never go as fast or as far as the
S6. Your decision is more of what do you want to do with this
aircraft. It compares more comfortably with the 601 series Zenith. I'd
not trade the short field capabilities of the 701 for the speed and
distance of the S6 unless you've lots of opportunities to fly into
unimproved areas or grass strips a majority of the time. On steel tube
and or aluminum construction, I prefer aluminum, but it is possible to
put a steel tube fuselage on its gear in just a few days, contrarily the
aluminum fuselage takes a little longer.
I'd decide on the *performance you want rather* than the kind of
construction required. Both companies are leaders in what they do.
You might try flying the 701 in the Microsoft Flight Simulator to get a
feel for it. Floats would seem more practical for a 801 than a 701.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive (an opinion is nothing more)
David Brooks wrote:
| Quote: | Please don't let this dissolve in to a brand flame fest - I am really
trying to get honest, grounded opinions, not flames.
First the back story: I became interested in building an LSA,
low-and-slow aircraft a couple of years ago when a friend of mine
pointed me at the RANS S7. I poked around, read what I could find on
the web and eventually stumbled on the RANS yahoo group. I have been
a member of that group ever since and I have to say that it is as good
a community of folks as you find here. They are just as passionate
about flying, building, and especially their 'brand' of choice.
I was very close to pulling the trigger on ordering a Super6 kit with
912ULS engine when a friend forwarded along a link to a video of a 701
doing takeoffs and landings from what looked like a small ramp in
front of a hanger. Since my ultimate goal is to put a plane on
floats, this was obviously and intriguing to me. Poking around the
web again finally brought me to this list - and I am just as impressed
with the quality of the help, the information and, again, the passion
for the brand. (If anything, the builders on this list tend to be
more hard core in that there are lots of folks here building from
plans and that just doesn't happen with the RANS planes.)
So my question to the group is this: what is the general opinion of
the quality, utility and "flyability" of the RANS planes? I know that
this is a little like comparing apples to oranges in that most of the
RANS line is fabric covered (the new S19 which just flew for the first
time will be all hard skinned), but I would like to hear what you all
have to say about the quality of the planes once they are complete and
what you may have heard about the the quality of the kits.
I am still thinking that a 701 on amphibious floats would add up to a
really nice way to spend a summer day, but there is a part of my brain
still rather romantically stuck on the "stick and fabric" S6 and S7.
Thanks,
Dave
|
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Avidmagnum
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 19
Location: Wisconsin, Florida
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Oh I have some s-6 rans time with the long wing on floats. The speed is more like 100mph and does not get off quite as well as the other 2 but does good ..it needs a bigger ventral fin as it has some adverse yaw. (no big deal) The 701 flys without adverse yaw without a ventral fin. Remember this is only my personal observations.