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Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project

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psm(at)ATT.NET
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project

Hi Patrick,



My feelings go to you and your wife.



I guess I don't really understand the content of 

the warning given to your wife.  If it was that 

any home built aircraft has some danger 

associated with it, then I agree.  If it was that 

the CH601XL is particularly dangerous in the 

field of home built aircraft then I 

disagree.  While there have been some unfortunate 

accidents with XLs recently, the number of 

accidents is still very low.  I still think the 

most dangerous part of any flight in an XL is the 

drive to the airport.  Cars are really dangerous!



As to airline pilots knowing everything -- I have 

serious doubts.  They are all competent pilots, 

but their experience with experimental aircraft 

varies from nothing to being "repeat 

offenders".  What they do seem to hold in common 

is a great respect for following the rules and 

being safety conscious.  This is what they are trained to respect.



Good luck,



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive



At 01:49 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Last week while I was at Oshkosh, a couple of my 

neighbors came over to my house to talk with my wife.



"We'd like to sit down and talk with you about 

your husband’s airplane project..."



They really scared my wife.   



To make a very long story short, one of my 

neighbors (who moved here from Modesto, CA - you 

guys know what that means) is an airline pilot, 

which to my non-pilot wife means that he knows 

Everything about All Aircraft.  He's also a 

fellow EAA member (social member, not a 

builder).  For reasons that are not important 

here, suffice it to say that there is nothing 

that I can ever say or demonstrate to him that 

will ever convince him that the 601 XL is a safe 

design.  He is quite passionate and vocal about that.



While I don't appreciated that they waited until 

I was gone before coming over, I'm not angry 

because I know that he has my (or at least my 

wife's) best interest and safety at heart.



Be that as it may, support from ones spouse is 

critical in completing an airplane project.  So 

in order to arm myself with the latest 

information, I took the opportunity while at 

Oshkosh to speak with several people who's 

technical abilities I greatly respect.  People 

who flew their 601's in.  The Zenith 

folks.  People with real-world experience.  And 

people who are builders just like me who face 

the same decisions and the same questions - and 

who came to the same conclusions.



You guys know who you are and I thank you for answering my questions.



All these people helped reassure and reinforce 

for me that the decisions I have made were good 

decisions.  Based on that, I believe I was able 

to control the damage and reassure my wife and thus maintain her support.



Today I am more confident than ever that the 601 

XL is the right airplane.  I hope to have my 

airframe completed this winter, my engine 

running next spring, and a flying airplane that 

I can bring to Oshkosh.  I am really looking 

forward to the day when I can show my own 

completed and flying airplane to some of you 

people who I met in person last week at Oshkosh.



Thanks!



Patrick

601XL/Corvair

hillsgun(at)nwinfo.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project

Sounds like the zealots who periodically knock on my door and want to talk to me about converting to their religion. I feel that everyone has the right to their own opinion, but they cross the line when they try and impose it onto others. I personally have no tolerance for such actions and would in no uncertain terms make my position clear to my neighbors if I was in your position and they had tried to influence members in my family while I was away. Do they have your wife's best interest and safety in mind? I think not, they are on there own mission to make the world a safer place (in there minds) and can then feel better about themselves. Sorry for the rant. Dan.



--

n4546v(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project

Hello Patrick:



    I wish the the very best and hope you overcome this situation.  You are 

a very patient man if you are "not angry".



This is so wrong on about seventeen different levels.



Again, the very best,



Randy L. Thwing, Las vegas



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Last week while I was at Oshkosh, a couple of my neighbors came over to my 

 house to talk with my wife.



 They really scared my wife.   


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm not angry

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:55 am Post subject: Re: Neighbor's tried to

My first thought after reading your story is the old adage that fences make good neighbors. But not for the normal reasons but as a source for a 2x4 to knock the crap out of your pilot neighbor. But since that's probably not an option I would certainly confront the man.



Is his problem specific to your build or home-builts in general? If the former I'd be curious as to the issue. If the latter I'd confront him with it in a forum where you have plenty of people on your side. Since you say he is a social member of your EAA chapter that might be the perfect place to do it.



Now for damage control. Has your wife flown in small aircraft? If not get her in with a CFI who is good and pro home-built. After that or if she is already comfortable in small planes get her in a 601 with a pilot who is experienced with the aircraft. My wife went to Mexico MO with me and and actually flew in a 601 before I did.



All that said I would still consider the 2x4 idea. I've got one you can borrow.



Another damage control action is to make sure that your wife is well aware of your own self preservation instincts. In my case this was handled long before I ever started building.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

barcusc(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project

Patrick,



You are a far better man than me! Anyone that would go around me and scare 

my family is not a friend of mine, I would have confronted him upon my 

return and made it clear not to ever cross that line again. If he didn't 

understand, and agree, that meddling in my family affairs is off limits, 

then our friendship would end there. If he rode a motorcycle I would not 

take it upon myself to discuss the perils of riding with his family.



Clyde Barcus

601 XL, Continental Powered

Wings, Tail & Engine Complete

Working on Fuselage



---

dkbrooks(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:57 am Post subject: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project

Just a quick thought on the consequences of the different approaches to

dealing with this 'concerned neighbor'.  I had a guy who lived next door to

me in a very crowded neighborhood in CA walk into my garage while I was

rebuilding my track car and suggest that I was two sticks short of a full

kite for (1) even thinking about racing and (2) doing my own work on the

car, especially the (horror of horrors!) the brakes.  (Why do people think

the brakes are so complicated?)



I patiently listened to him, explained all the safety gear in the car

including the roll bar, the seats and harnesses, the fire suppression (just

a pair of Halon extinguishers, but he didn't need to know the details),

etc.  I sat him in the car and strapped him in and showed him how the

harnesses work, talked about how much safer it was to drive at speed on a

track with all well trained drivers in well prepared (and carefully

inspected) cars with corner flaggers and EMS standing by than it is to drive

on I5 at rush hour with cell phone using morons who are balancing their

checkbooks while doing 80 mph, yada, yada, yada.  I don't think I had him

completely converted but at least he was more sympathetic and it ended as a

friendly exchange.



Here's the point - I could have just blown this guy off but I think that he

was much, much more understanding when it came time to tune the car - hours

and hours of running the (not so quiet) car in the garage and driveway,

driving it up and down the road, fiddling, more noise, etc.  He even offered

to 'help', if you can imagine.  I will never know for sure, but my best

guess is that if I told him to stuff it that first day then I would have had

all sorts of noise complaints and visits from the local PD.



Now I understand that this is a different situation than someone going

behind your back to scare your family, but it might be worth the effort to

win this guy over.  If you have any intention of painting your bird in the

driveway, doing the run-in on the engine at home, whatever, then I would

suggest at least avoid pissing him off if at all possible.   Making an enemy

out of a neighbor that already thinks you are doing something dangerous and

irresponsible (with respect to your family) might just make things worse.

It might be a tough nut to swallow, but making a friend out this jerk could

pay dividends later.



Yes, fences make good neighbors, but happy (or at least placated) neighbors

are almost as good.



Dave



On 7/31/07, Clyde Barcus <barcusc(at)comcast.net> wrote:

[quote]

 



 Patrick,



 You are a far better man than me! Anyone that would go around me and scare



 my family is not a friend of mine, I would have confronted him upon my

 return and made it clear not to ever cross that line again. If he didn't

 understand, and agree, that meddling in my family affairs is off limits,

 then our friendship would end there. If he rode a motorcycle I would not

 take it upon myself to discuss the perils of riding with his family.



 Clyde Barcus

 601 XL, Continental Powered

 Wings, Tail & Engine Complete

 Working on Fuselage



 ---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Neighbor's tried to

I wonder what kind of plane your neighbour flies.  I also wonder if the 601 has a better flight record than the 737 which had the rudder control problems.



Perhaps the thing to do is get hin to try a 601 sometime... Just be prepared to do some owork on a second plane.



Noel

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

sperry50(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:51 am Post subject: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project

I'll agree with being prepared to work on the plane afterwards. I used to

have a Buccaneer IIB amphib and the two times I let "experienced" pilots fly

it were almost disasters. Both had plenty of hours but neither had ever

landed a plane that small. Never again!



Take the busy-body up for a ride and maybe even let him have the controls

but think twice before getting close to mother earth.



Skip



--

fderfler(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:08 am Post subject: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project

Noel said, "Perhaps the thing to do is get hin to try a 601 sometime... "   

  

 From my personal experience with four senior airline captains, he would never be able get a 601 near the runway.   They float, flinch, fumble, and ...ummm... do not do well.  I've heard CFIs relate the same stories about these guys who want to get "checked out" in a 172.   The 5th airline captain I flew with was a former Navy pilot who flew A4s and A6s off of (and back onto) carriers.   He kisses the 601 in like a baby.  --FJD -- 

Frank Derfler 



-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com 



- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM



-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at  www.KEYSBOATER.com    



-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my   www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com 

  [quote][b]

paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:26 pm Post subject: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Yep. some people who fly mey not really be pilots. Case in point:  NAS  New Orleans, back in the '60s, had a flying club based out of New Orleans  Lakefront Airport. Had two Luscombes, a 182, and a T-34. Hotshot Naval Aviator  joined, and wanted to go flying. Club rules required you check out in  increasingly sophisticated aircraft starting with the Luscombe. No  exceptions.  We observed said Naval Aviator taxi some 2 or 3 miles to the  active, (for most people it was about 300 yards), and then demonstrate to the  CFI how to use every bit of the width of a runway for takeoffs, fly  cross-country patterns, and verify the ruggedness of Luscombe gear legs.   The guy who later got out was dripping wet, and humbled.

  

 Paul R

  

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 [quote]   ---

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