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Europa colours /The facts

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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:45 am Post subject: Europa colours /The facts

All 

  

 who are interested about "colour & temp"  topic:

  

 couple of days ago I promised to come back  after

 finding some real scientific facts instead of "I  feel so

 knowledge"  and here we are:

  

 I have today interviewed two (2) experts, one after  one,

 just to be sure:

  

 1) Professor Timo Kalema, Energy and Process  Technique,

 Tampere University of Technology, Tampere  Finland

  

 2) Professor Reijo Karvinen, Energy and Process  Technique,

 Tampere University of Technology,  Tampere Finland 

  

 http://www.tut.fi/public/

  

 I strictly point both of these gentlemen represents the  highest thermal knowledge:

  

 They BOTH stated as follows:

  

 - direct from the sun the surfaces (Europa upper parts)  get SOLAR RADIATION

 - the wave lenght is about 1 um

 - the colour of the surface is essential because of the thermal absorbtion

 - Europas should be painted white or at least light  coloured

 - that is even more important what nearer equator you  are

  

 - from the ground the surfaces (down side parts) get   only  THERMAL RADIATION

 - the wave lenght is about 10-100 um (depending the ground  material)

 - the colour of the (plane dn side´ s) surface  is nothing to do w absobtion of that radiation

  

 - easier observation ratio method:

 " go to the shadow and have a white shirt or black shirt  on and you still feel same temperature"

  

 I make the point even clearer: two Europas, one has white  coloured down side wings

 and other one has black coloured down side wings. Both has  light coloured upper sides.

 Both are standing on the hot black asphalt side by side. If measured the temperature from  

 the down side surface, it will be  exactly same. That is proved and a fact  - I am sorry !!!

 Colour is important only  when DIRECT sun solar radiation, and nothing to do with  thermal radiation.

  

 For me personally it is interesting because half of my  wings´ down sides are light and

 half of them are dark. You can be sure I am a happy man  today - right choosing makes

 always good for builder - especially aviation safety  questions.

  

 Please notice couple of important things:

  

 1) I have dark colour only underside, not sides or upper  side (except letters, that´s bad).

  

 2) I do not recommend anybody to paint their Europa  uppersides or even sides

 anything but white or very light (because of solar  radiation). Otherwise be careful.

  

 3) If you like to paint ONLY underside dark, you can do it  where ever you live and fly,

 even in the equator (please do not fly much uppside  down!).

  

 4) where ever you live and keep your plane out, be careful  when on the asphalt

 because or thermal radiation (nothing to do w plane´s  colour, white or black). If a hot

 day, move it away to the hangar or at least to the grass  surface. That is good

 because heat energy makes water in  plants to steam and so it is cooler.

  

 5) If you paint it only white, you can forget this topic  but please notice point 4!

  

 Painting only white is easier to paint and maintain and  also cheeper to paint

 and maintain but so boring. If it´s look means nothing,  please paint white.

 Otherwise you have to think  and use your own brains and that is very hard. 

  

 Look those Chinese /North Korean girls; all have or used  to have 

 similar green uniform. Sexy? 

  

 Karel; this is not only for you but I have done my best to  provoke some of you.

  

 Please do not take personally - your golden strips are  extremely beautiful

 (those professors told me also some facts about high price  heat reflecting

 dark metallic colours, I am sure your strips are safe and  you can fly peace

 in your heart, also in a sunny day).

  

 I hardly can wait comments.

  

 Me personally - will not continue this topic any more.  I was right as usually

 and that is enough for me. What is the most important  thing - It is not 

 necessary to repaint my plane. If I would paint it  again, I did like to do same.

  

 Tim: N914XS suffered case 4 - hot asphalt - not a colour  relative problem.

  

 Joyce: you wrote "The heat  radiating from the ground to the underside of the

plane was enough to soften  it, so that heel pressure when we got back in

distorted the  skins!

        It is worth taking the skin  colour and heating  possibilities

seriously!                Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ"

  

 Now you can be sure: your  Europa´s down side colour had nothing to do with

 your problems in Morocco.  White colour - same situation. The fact is: you kept

 your plane in too hot conditions. Do not fly to hot hell by Europa and if  you do so, 

 keep it in hangar or in good shadow!

  

 Gentlemen, you can be sure I will take my head of  from hot ass now.

 And continue to fly my Europa with "dark  underside colour"!

  

 This colour topic was a good example of "trust  only yourself and your senses".

  

 And some individuals out there - who have kindly  supported me - just thanks.

  

 Raimo

 =====

 Raimo M W Toivio

  

 OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417, The Experimental of The  Year (w DARK UNDERSIDE)

OH-CVK C172 Skyhawk, totally restored  2006-2007

OH-BLL Beechcraft C45, w radial engines (grounded)

  

 37500  Lempaala

Finland

tel + 358 3 3753  777

fax + 358 3 3753 100

gsm + 358 40 590 1450

  

 raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi (raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi)

www.rwm.fi



  

 



  

  

  

  

   

 [quote]   ---

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rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:21 am Post subject: Europa colours /The facts

Hello Raimo



Thank you for your posting on "colour & temp".



I think you are missing vital consideration.



What about a surface that reflects a reasonable amount like like cement

runways and parking areas?



I am a hot air balloonist. My last homebuilt is a huge 8 ball, 95,036

cubic feet (majority is black). When there is good solar energy around, I

can take a person in a harness attached to the envelope and fly them solar

powered. It works far better on a white runway compared to black taxiway.

I attribute this to reflection to lower part of balloon in addition to

direct solar.



I expect reflection from a cement surface can heat lower of Europa less

whenm it is white than dark. 



The very best conditions I have had for solar flight was on a frozen lake

covered with snow when it was -20F. This is in part to do with thick air,

but amount of heat generated to dark was very impressive. It was dead calm

and an awful lot of cold clothes came off, and packing away was mini

summertime.



If calm wind and strong sun reflecting off snow, it would be well advised

to measure underside of dark composite, I have feeling it could surprise

you.



Ron Parigoris

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europa flugzeug fabrik

Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 65
Location: North Coast, USA

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Europa colours /The facts

In the interest of adding my amateur science here [  ], I have this digital, infrared temperature reading, gun thingy which is remarkably accurate.  Have also an SUV with much sculpting on the body for different sun angles, in med-dark gray-green metallic. The paint reads 10F-degrees below its various black parts on a sunny day.  Like today, bright-sun, 78-80F.  The highest temp near midday read 135F, for places on the car most perpendicular to the sun, or 55F above ambient.  On the side of the vehicle more facing the noon sun, highest temp for a pure vertical surface was 110F, or 30F above ambient. For lowest side surfaces, more angled  toward the ground, highest was only 25F above ambient.  These side temps (110 or less) will not soften fiberglass, even on an ambient day of 95F, or resulting 125F worst case.



At 2:30PM, a very thin overcast moved over, but still classed as a sunny day, all measured temps dropped significantly, like 20F.  So, for a Europa whose lower portion of the fuse is painted in a less brutal color than my SUV, the more perpendicular angle will occur as the sun is nearer the horizon, but through all that similar atmospheric stuff, we know that the sun does not feel as hot.  On a clearer day, I shall test again.



As to heat reflection from the ground, when the sun was at a midday angle to best reflect off the concrete (reading 105F), I "shot" the rocker panels.  This is metal, painted black on my SUV, underneath the door bottoms, and why in U.S. they're called "rockers," who knows.  They are more angled down toward the ground than the door above, but still read about 10F higher than the dark gray above it.  I then shot the temp on the bottom side of the rocker, parallel to earth, and it read another 10F higher yet.  However, this is 8 inches above ground. This would be a function of distance for sure, and I'll guess it's an inverse-square relationship.  This suggests that the monowheel would be more affected than a tri-gear.



Thus, a possible explanation for the damage to the factory demonstrator with the dark blue bottom paint was a combination of monowheel which it was, hot day, black asphalt ramp, and after a flight where we're adding engine room heat to the the affected area. Accordingly, on my tri-gear, I have no problem with painting my Europa's lower 40% in color less brutal than that blue.



Fred F.

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UVTReith(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:17 am Post subject: Europa colours /The facts

Hallo Raimo, Hallo Europa Family,

  

  

 first of all congratulations to your baby and your first flights,  Reimo.

 Once you made a remark during rolling exercise.   - " Oh,  she is also flying ! "

 Have you made a turn around or have you stopped flying?

  

 Somebody told me once: 

 " When the bird is off the ground during your rolling exercises continue  with flying. By sudden reduce of the power, the plane can drop down due to the  lost of the prop wash effect."

  

 An answer from some experts will be very welcome, as I will start in two or  three weeks time with my roll outs.

  

  

 But now to the topic of this eMail:  Europa Colours / The Fact

  

 Attached is a picture of an Austrian Europa Classic Tri-Gear. 

 I guess the Monowheel was changed to a tri-Gear recently, as this is kit  173.

 The full approval was given in 2000.

 As you can see, this bird looks still very nice.

  

  

 Best Regards,

  

 Bruno Reith / UVT Reith

 europa-aircraft-germany

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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:57 am Post subject: Europa colours /The facts

Guten Tag, Bruno

  

 und danke sehr schön!

  

 OE-CMW looks great and I am sure 

 it is going to do so decades. Of course!

 By the way very intelligent painting  scheme...

  

 I have no ground loops and still flying.

 In fact I had a rare opportunity

 to fly together with Sir Rolph Muller, English  gentleman.

 It was last Monday and he will later

 write a report of my OH-XRT´s  characteristics.

 My intend is to end upp w my test flight sessions during  August-September. 

  

 I wish you luck with your roll outs.

 Do enjoy every moments - they will not come  back.

  

 Regards, Raimo

 =========

 Raimo M W Toivio

  

 OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417, The Experimental of The Year,  about 20 hrs & 100 landings.

OH-CVK C172 Skyhawk, totally restored  2006-2007

OH-BLL Beechcraft C45, w radial engines (grounded)

  

 37500  Lempaala

Finland

tel + 358 3 3753  777

fax + 358 3 3753 100

gsm + 358 40 590 1450

  

 raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi (raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi)

www.rwm.fi



 [quote]   ---

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