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Mark Scrivener

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 10
Location: San Jose, CA

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: Looking for good book on Aerobatics

Hello Everyone,



I just bought into a partnership on a Yak 52 (N7092A - based at RHV). I'm still getting familiar with the airplane, but plan to start aerobatic instruction in it very soon. 



Since I don't have any formal aerobatic training (though I have done acro in the Yak with competent pilots), I thought a good book on the subject might help me get more from my instruction (and give me something to do on those long commercial flights I seem to find myself on). 



Can anyone recommend a good book on acro? One aimed at the Yak (or similar airplane) instead of a 150 or Citabria would be nice. Oh - my primary interest is having fun and not killing myself - so I want to know all the ways things can go wrong and how to recover. 



BTW - my "other" airplane is a Mooney 231 - which I have close to 1,000 hours in. Great airplane, but unless I have somewhere to go, I tend not to fly it.



Thanks!

Mark

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:32 pm Post subject: Looking for good book on Aerobatics

Start with the YAK-52 handbook, the pilots operating book. One is available

in the RPA store. If this is the same book as the original translated book,

the last half of the book will discuss aerobatics as it pertains to the

YAK-52. In the original translation, entry, over the top, and recovery

speeds are in kilometers.

Any book on aerobatic terminology will help you understand the maneuvers but

the YAK manual will give you the correct speeds to safely perform the

maneuver. 

Spending time with someone that has been trained in the YAK doing acrobatics

is preferable to just having the run of the mill CFI with aerobatic training

but no YAK experience is not going to help much. 

Hope this helped some,

Doc



--

dontmesswtexas(at)yahoo.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: Looking for good book on Aerobatics

Sporty's has a great selection of books and dvd's, etc.. You might try them.

   

  www.sportys.com   

   

  Good Luck,

   

  Lynn



Mark Scrivener <mark_scrivener(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Scrivener" 



Hello Everyone,



I just bought into a partnership on a Yak 52 (N7092A - based at RHV). I'm still getting familiar with the airplane, but plan to start aerobatic instruction in it very soon. 



Since I don't have any formal aerobatic training (though I have done acro in the Yak with competent pilots), I thought a good book on the subject might help me get more from my instruction (and give me something to do on those long commercial flights I seem [quote][b]

aerobaticgirl(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: Looking for good book on Aerobatics

Buy "Basic Aerobatics" by Geza Szurovy and Mike Goulian



Roger Kemp <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com> wrote:  [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" 



Start with the YAK-52 handbook, the pilots operating book. One is available

in the RPA store. If this is the same book as the original translated book,

the last half of the book will discuss aerobatics as it pertains to the

YAK-52. In the original translation, entry, over the top, and recovery

speeds are in kilometers.

Any book on aerobatic terminology will help you understand the maneuvers but

the YAK manual will give you the correct speeds to safely perform the

maneuver. 

Spending time with someone that has been trained in the YAK doing acrobatics

is preferable to just having the run of the mill CFI with aerobatic training

but no YAK  experience is not going to help much. 

Hope this helped some,

Doc



--

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:22 pm Post subject: Looking for good book on Aerobatics

You need Alan Cassidy's book on aerobatics. It is very good, and the author

has experience in Yaks and Sukhoi's (even with flat spins).



Jan



--

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:49 am Post subject: Looking for good book on Aerobatics

Mark   

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =  "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />  

Clearly the more information one can get, whether from  books or anywhere else, the better, but aerobatics in the Yak-52 really should  be learnt with an experienced aerobatic pilot on the type, particularly because  of the issue with the Yak-52 spinning – suggest you read my article on the following website link: 

 http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak-52%20spinning.htm

  

 Richard

 

Richard Goode  Aerobatics 

Rhodds  Farm 

Lyonshall 

Hereford 

HR5 3LW 

United Kingdom 

  

Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120 

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129 

Skype:  Richard.Goode 

www.russianaeros.com 



Mark Scrivener  <mark_scrivener(at)yahoo.com> wrote: [quote]    	  Quote: 	
		  -->      Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Scrivener"      



Hello Everyone,



I just bought into      a partnership on a Yak 52 (N7092A - based at RHV). I'm still getting      familiar with the airplane, but plan to start aerobatic instruction in it      very soon. 



Since I don't have any formal aerobatic training (though      I have done acro in the Yak with competent pilots), I thought a good book on      the subject might help me get more from my instruction (and give me      something to do on those long commercial flights I seem  	  Quote: 	
		  



	
	
[b]

fougapilot

Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 88
Location: Flat on my back with minimum airspeed

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:51 am Post subject: Re: Looking for good book on Aerobatics

Mark,



Keep an eye out for Sergei Boriak. He is a former World Aerobatic Champion, IAC coach. Sergei currently travels the USA as an airshow pilot (flying a Sukoi 31) and is a friend of the RPA. He has been offering his back seat services to anyone with a Yak/CJ. I personally flew with him last summer and  loved my experience. A real eye opener.



Books are good. I like Aerobatics by Neil Williams myself (ISBN 0 9504543 03). But nothing will replace having a highly experience instructor in your back seat when you do that first spin.



www.sergeiboriak.com



Check out Sergei's schedule. If he is in your neck of the woods he most likely find time for you. Be ready for a colorful individual.



Dan

john(at)johnalber.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:17 am Post subject: Looking for good book on Aerobatics

Mark,



There are any of good books on aerobatics. My favorites are those by Duane Cole and Bill Kirshner. Far more important is a thorough curriculum in recovery techniques for the Yak 52. It is a wonderful aircraft, with very benign and predictable qualities. But a Yak 52's qualities are different from those typical of aerobatic training aircraft, such as the Super Decathlon. Indeed, the 52 is different from its sibling the 50.



It sounds as though you may appreciate this, but this bears repeating.



Once you have thorough training in recoveries, you will be comfortable enough to buy the best aerobatic training resource: gasoline.



By the way, even very experienced aerobatic instructors may be unfamiliar with the 52's recovery techniques, as some have learned to their detriment. You need an expert in the 52. I took my training from Gennady Elfimov in the UK, (and additional spin training (not Yak specific) from Rich Stowell, whom I recommend for a  very disciplined introduction to aerobatics). Gena sometimes comes to the US to teach, and there are other Russian aircraft experts in the US as well. You'll find references to them on the Yak-list.



 Such type-specific training is invaluable and may be life-saving if you, like the rest of us, sometimes botch a hammerhead or Immelman. The 52 gives lots of warning of impending departures. Training will teach you to recognize and prevent or, if you've gone too far, to recover. It will teach you the necessity of safe altitudes (e.g., the best you'll be able to recover an upright flat spin in is about 1300 feet) and of correct recovery techniques (e.g., Beggs-Mueller is not effective in the 52, which has its own very specific techniques). Once you have that training, you will be comfortable trying almost any maneuver, because you will be confident both of yourself and of the utter predictability of the 52 when flown according to its requirements.



John  Alber



John Alber

john(at)johnalber.com

314-259-2144 [quote][b]

isaligman(at)saligman.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:39 am Post subject: Looking for good book on Aerobatics

The Yak is great for  aerobatics at all levels.   There are a number of great books, I had  one by Mike Goulian and another by Neil Williams.

  

  

 http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Aerobatics-Geza-Szurovy/dp/0070629315/ref=sr_1_2/002-6472493-8792040?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187094751&sr=8-2

  

 http://www.amazon.com/Aerobatics-Neil-Williams/dp/0950454303/ref=sr_1_2/002-6472493-8792040?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187094824&sr=8-2

  

  

 I have always found  that flying with an instructor, in their aircraft or the YAK was very  helpful.  Even in their aircraft, you tend to see the same errors, many of  which are natural, and they can show you what to look for in a dynamic  environment.  It looks more or less the same in the  Yak.  

  

 There are also  a handful of instructors who are former Russian Yak pilots who  come around for a week at a time and you can get some of the best training  possible, everything from very slow loops to inverted flat  spins.   I wouldn't do these by myself but they are eye opening  and dispel a lot of myths.

  

  

  

  

  

  

   Ira Saligman

  

 o   610 940  0420 

 c   610  324 5500

 f    215 243 7699

  

 isaligman(at)Saligman.com (isaligman(at)Saligman.com)





  

   [quote][b]

scott-p(at)texas.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:06 am Post subject: Looking for good book on Aerobatics

Hi Mark,



The best books on Aerobatics that I have used recently are Mike 

Goulian's _Basic Aerobatics_ and _Advanced Aerobatics_, and Alan 

Cassidy's _Better Aerobatics_. I don't know the print status of 

Goulian's books (they date from the mid-90's), but Alan's book can be 

had from his web page www.worldaerobatics.com. Alan has a lot of time in 

Russian aircraft and at least speaks to the differences.



If you are really interested in learning aerobatics, a book won't cut 

it--you will really want to invest in some quality instruction. the IAC 

(www.iac.org) maintains a list of aerobatic schools, and I really would 

recommend getting some competent instruction before trying this sport.



Good luck,



Scott



Mark Scrivener wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hello Everyone,



 I just bought into a partnership on a Yak 52 (N7092A - based at RHV). I'm still getting familiar with the airplane, but plan to start aerobatic instruction in it very soon. 



 Since I don't have any formal aerobatic training (though I have done acro in the Yak with competent pilots), I thought a good book on the subject might help me get more from my instruction (and give me something to do on those long commercial flights I seem to find myself on). 



 Can anyone recommend a good book on acro? One aimed at the Yak (or similar airplane) instead of a 150 or Citabria would be nice. Oh - my primary interest is having fun and not killing myself - so I want to know all the ways things can go wrong and how to recover. 



 BTW - my "other" airplane is a Mooney 231 - which I have close to 1,000 hours in. Great airplane, but unless I have somewhere to go, I tend not to fly it.



 Thanks!

 Mark





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129076#129076

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:10 am Post subject: Looking for good book on Aerobatics

Thanks for the information, Richard !!   

   

Can you tell us why the original Russian harness is not good enough ? I use it all the time, also doing a lot of inverted stuff. It worked for the Russian aces in the 70ties and 80ties. What is wrong with it ?  

   

Jan  

         

  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode

 Sent: dinsdag 14 augustus 2007 12:48

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Looking for good book on Aerobatics  

  

     

Mark    

   

Clearly the more information one can get, whether from books or anywhere else, the better, but aerobatics in the Yak-52 really should be learnt with an experienced aerobatic pilot on the type, particularly because of the issue with the Yak-52 spinning – suggest you read my article on the following website link:   

    

http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak-52%20spinning.htm  

    

   

    

Richard  

  

Richard  Goode Aerobatics 

 Rhodds Farm 

 Lyonshall 

 Hereford 

 HR5 3LW 

 United Kingdom 

   

 Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120 

 Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129 

 Skype:  Richard.Goode 

 www.russianaeros.com 

 

 Mark Scrivener <mark_scrivener(at)yahoo.com> wrote:   	  Quote: 	
		     	  Quote: 	
		    

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Scrivener" 

 

 Hello Everyone,

 

 I just bought into a partnership on a Yak 52 (N7092A - based at RHV). I'm still getting familiar with the airplane, but plan to start aerobatic instruction in it very soon. 

 

 Since I don't have any formal aerobatic training (though I have done acro in the Yak with competent pilots), I thought a good book on the subject might help me get more from my instruction (and give me something to do on those long commercial flights I seem    	  Quote: 	
		    	
	
     	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
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6

      [quote][b]

drc(at)wscare.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:31 am Post subject: Looking for good book on Aerobatics

I would echo some of these comments.  The book Basic Aerobatics is excellent.  There is a follow up book called Advanced Aerobatics.  I would recommend this book to be read with the first.  Even though you may not intend on advanced or above, the book goes into some aerodynamic issues at the extremes of the envelope.  (spinning, snaps, etc that it is very possible to wind up in the 52 unitentionally)  

Also I have spent 3 sessions with Sergei, and I have learned more with him in the backseat in one hour than I do on my own, with books and other pilots the whole rest of the year.  This year we spent 2 hours on the ground discussing spins, inverted spins, and tumbles then 1:15  on the hobbs doing inverted spins and tumbles.  then another hour and half on the ground with the debrief.   I have the whole flight on my cockpit video - and you just cannot get what he puts in your brain from a book or most other pilots.



I will put a few more books online when I get home and look through my collection.  But I always go back to these and the old IAC publications form the 80's.



Herb

52TW



And new owner of N176FD - Yak 55M

Trying to become previous owner of Wilga 35 N33ZV (anyone interested?)



On Aug 14, 2007, at 7:38 AM, Ira Saligman wrote:

[quote]  The Yak is great for aerobatics at all levels.   There are a number of great books, I had one by Mike Goulian and another by Neil Williams.

  

  

 http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Aerobatics-Geza-Szurovy/dp/0070629315/ref=sr_1_2/002-6472493-8792040?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187094751&sr=8-2

  

 http://www.amazon.com/Aerobatics-Neil-Williams/dp/0950454303/ref=sr_1_2/002-6472493-8792040?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187094824&sr=8-2

  

  

 I have always found that flying with an instructor, in their aircraft or the YAK was very helpful.  Even in their aircraft, you tend to see the same errors, many of which are natural, and they can show you what to look for in a dynamic environment.  It looks more or less the same in the Yak.  

  

 There are also a handful of instructors who are former Russian Yak pilots who come around for a week at a time and you can get some of the best training possible, everything from very slow loops to inverted flat spins.   I wouldn't do these by myself but they are eye opening and dispel a lot of myths.

  

  

  

  

  

  

   Ira Saligman

  

 o   610 940 0420 

 c   610 324 5500

 f    215 243 7699

  

 isaligman(at)Saligman.com (isaligman(at)Saligman.com)





  

  	  Quote: 	
		  

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



	
[b]

jorgen.nielsen(at)mweb.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:18 am Post subject: Looking for good book on Aerobatics

I was going to suggest this!  Richard beat me to it.  

   

Remember most books use American engines / aircraft as examples, the Yaks prop turns the other way so you need to reverse the various prop effects when going through something in your mind.  

         

  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode

 Sent: 14 August 2007 12:48 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Looking for good book on Aerobatics  

  

     

Mark    

   

Clearly the more information one can get, whether from books or anywhere else, the better, but aerobatics in the Yak-52 really should be learnt with an experienced aerobatic pilot on the type, particularly because of the issue with the Yak-52 spinning – suggest you read my article on the following website link:   

    

http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak-52%20spinning.htm  

    

   

    

Richard  

  

Richard  Goode Aerobatics 

 Rhodds Farm 

 Lyonshall 

 Hereford 

 HR5 3LW 

 United Kingdom 

   

 Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120 

 Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129 

 Skype:  Richard.Goode 

 www.russianaeros.com 

 

 Mark Scrivener <mark_scrivener(at)yahoo.com> wrote:   	  Quote: 	
		     	  Quote: 	
		    

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Scrivener" 

 

 Hello Everyone,

 

 I just bought into a partnership on a Yak 52 (N7092A - based at RHV). I'm still getting familiar with the airplane, but plan to start aerobatic instruction in it very soon. 

 

 Since I don't have any formal aerobatic training (though I have done acro in the Yak with competent pilots), I thought a good book on the subject might help me get more from my instruction (and give me something to do on those long commercial flights I seem    	  Quote: 	
		    	
	
     	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6

       [quote][b]

jorgen.nielsen(at)mweb.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:21 am Post subject: Looking for good book on Aerobatics

Agree with all this.  

   

Gena for example will not begin by teaching aerobatics per se, he will begin by teaching you how to handle the aircraft properly and at the edges of the envelope.  He will teach how to recover the aircraft properly from any attitude.  

   

Then you ready to learn aeros.  

   

Have fun!  It really is.   

         

  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Alber

 Sent: 14 August 2007 02:15 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Looking for good book on Aerobatics  

  

   

Mark,

 

 There are any of good books on aerobatics. My favorites are those by Duane Cole and Bill Kirshner. Far more important is a thorough curriculum in recovery techniques for the Yak 52. It is a wonderful aircraft, with very benign and predictable qualities. But a Yak 52's qualities are different from those typical of aerobatic training aircraft, such as the Super Decathlon. Indeed, the 52 is different from its sibling the 50.

 

 It sounds as though you may appreciate this, but this bears repeating.

 

 Once you have thorough training in recoveries, you will be comfortable enough to buy the best aerobatic training resource: gasoline.

 

 By the way, even very experienced aerobatic instructors may be unfamiliar with the 52's recovery techniques, as some have learned to their detriment. You need an expert in the 52. I took my training from Gennady Elfimov in the UK, (and additional spin training (not Yak specific) from Rich Stowell, whom I recommend for a very disciplined introduction to aerobatics). Gena sometimes comes to the US to teach, and there are other Russian aircraft experts in the US as well. You'll find references to them on the Yak-list.

 

  Such type-specific training is invaluable and may be life-saving if you, like the rest of us, sometimes botch a hammerhead or Immelman. The 52 gives lots of warning of impending departures. Training will teach you to recognize and prevent or, if you've gone too far, to recover. It will teach you the necessity of safe altitudes (e.g., the best you'll be able to recover an upright flat spin in is about 1300 feet) and of correct recovery techniques (e.g., Beggs-Mueller is not effective in the 52, which has its own very specific techniques). Once you have that training, you will be comfortable trying almost any maneuver, because you will be confident both of yourself and of the utter predictability of the 52 when flown according to its requirements.

 

 John Alber

 

 

 

 John Alber

 john(at)johnalber.com

 314-259-2144    	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4

       [quote][b]

Mark Scrivener

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 10
Location: San Jose, CA

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for good book on Aerobatics

Thanks everyone - lots of great suggestions.



I ordered the Basic and Advanced Aerobatics books by Geza. I agree time with a good instructor is a must and far better than a book - but since I can't always be flying I figure the book can only enhance the time when I am with a good instructor.



Now to find an acro instructor with Yak knowledge in the bay area...



Cheers,

Mark

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