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older egt sending J or K wire?

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Malcolmbru(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: older egt sending J or K wire?

J wire must be what I mean. I asked the same Question of Phil Lockwood  at  Oshkosh  and he had no idea .I wonder how using the wrong sender  would effect the reading ? when I bought the plane I found out the builder  traded the new in the kit 532 for a mostly run out 532 and muffler that  came out of his friends  module  2 .finished in 1991  the  muffler and sending unit is very old and I put it on a new 582.

  

  

 

Malcolm Brubaker

Midland Michigan 

KF mod 11 582 E  box  3 blade wood prop 100% completed buy the guy I bought it from   



  



AOL.com.

  [quote][b]

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Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: older egt sending J or K wire?

At 07:15 PM 8/23/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I wonder how using the wrong sender would effect the reading ?


	


I pulled this data from Bob Nuckoll's book:



"Type K alloys are suitable for any kind of measurement on an 

airplane including exhaust gas temperatures. Type J has a recommended 

upper limit that suggests it not be used in exhaust stacks but it is 

fine everywhere else. As you can see from voltages in Table 14-2, 

Type J wire has a little more output for a given temperature than 

does Type K but for most purposes, either is satisfactory."



Table 14-2 excerpts:



Temp F, J voltage (mV), K voltage (mV) (Referenced to an ice bath.)



-40, -1.96, -1.50

32, 0, 0

212, 5.27, 4.10

392, 10.78, 8.13

572, 16.33, 12.21



         That's as high as the table goes, so I can't get you any 

info at EGT temps. Maybe you can curve fit this data and get 

something meaningful at 1200F. Hope this helps.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:26 am Post subject: older egt sending J or K wire?

Mal-

You can't use a J extension with a K thermocouple or vice- 

versa...could that be your problem?

Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/395+ hrs

On Aug 23, 2007, at 10:15 PM, Malcolmbru(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   J wire must be what I mean. I asked the same Question of Phil  

 Lockwood at  Oshkosh  and he had no idea .I wonder how using the  

 wrong sender would effect the reading ? when I bought the plane I  

 found out the builder traded the new in the kit 532 for a mostly  

 run out 532 and muffler that came out of his friends  module   

 2 .finished in 1991  the muffler and sending unit is very old and I  

 put it on a new 582.



 Malcolm Brubaker

 Midland Michigan

 KF mod 11 582 E box  3 blade wood prop 100% completed buy the guy I  

 bought it from



 AOL.com.

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 ============================================================

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:41 am Post subject: older egt sending J or K wire?

During my 15 years at the Chrysler Proving Grounds Wind Tunnel, where  

we would commonly install up to 120 thermocouples in various places  

on a car, J was used for up to about 5-600 degrees, and K was used  

for exhaust manifold readings, and anything else that was near to the  

exhaust system. We would typically dedicate channel numbers 1-80 to J  

thermocouples, and 81-up to K thermocouples. The channel numbers were  

fed into the recording devices/readouts.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/395+ hrs

do not archive



On Aug 24, 2007, at 12:09 AM, Guy Buchanan wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 At 07:15 PM 8/23/2007, you wrote:

> I wonder how using the wrong sender would effect the reading ?



 I pulled this data from Bob Nuckoll's book:



 "Type K alloys are suitable for any kind of measurement on an  

 airplane including exhaust gas temperatures. Type J has a  

 recommended upper limit that suggests it not be used in exhaust  

 stacks but it is fine everywhere else. As you can see from voltages  

 in Table 14-2, Type J wire has a little more output for a given  

 temperature than does Type K but for most purposes, either is  

 satisfactory."



 Table 14-2 excerpts:



 Temp F, J voltage (mV), K voltage (mV) (Referenced to an ice bath.)



 -40, -1.96, -1.50

 32, 0, 0

 212, 5.27, 4.10

 392, 10.78, 8.13

 572, 16.33, 12.21



         That's as high as the table goes, so I can't get you any  

 info at EGT temps. Maybe you can curve fit this data and get  

 something meaningful at 1200F. Hope this helps.

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

torgemor(at)online.no
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: older egt sending J or K wire?

Ok Folks,



let's forget everything about the J type, as this is the IRON/CONSTANTAN  

thermocouple, and this one is NEVER to be used for EGT in a Kitfox,  

-remember- , forget the lo temperature J for "Julie"!



The ONLY one we can use for the EGT indicator is the K type thermocouple!  

This is Chromel Alumel thermocouple.....



Anything different from this will give you way off reading..



The “very” point where the Chromel and the Alumel is "joined", is the  

exact sensing point for the temperature we're reading.



If this point is at the freezing point of water -this will give zero volt  

between the two wires, anything else differ.



The temperature vs. voltage is "almost" linear...  In other word, it's a  

perfect sensor for our exhaust gas temperature (EGT) device.



So, different materials different results!



K thermocouple is the only one we use for EGT......



I'm still using a 532 in my Fox!



Cheers.



Torgeir.



On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 04:15:56 +0200, <Malcolmbru(at)aol.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   J wire must be what I mean. I asked the same Question of Phil Lockwood   

 at

 Oshkosh  and he had no idea .I wonder how using the wrong sender  would  

 effect

 the reading ? when I bought the plane I found out the builder  traded  

 the new

 in the kit 532 for a mostly run out 532 and muffler that  came out of his

 friends  module  2 .finished in 1991  the  muffler and sending unit is  

 very old

 and I put it on a new 582.



 Malcolm Brubaker

 Midland Michigan

 KF mod 11 582 E  box  3 blade wood prop 100% completed buy the guy I  

 bought

 it from



 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


	


-- 

Torgeir



Kitfox Model II, 1993

Engine: Rotax 532 with B gearbox

Propeller: IVO UL 366Q



Tromsoe

NORWAY.



Weather in Tromso right now:

http://met.no/troms/index.html



City map of Tromso:



http://www.avinor.no/English/Airports/Tromso_Airport/?module=Articles;action=ArticleFolder.publicOpenFolder;ID=1453



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