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dean.psiropoulos(at)veriz
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 Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:54 pm Post subject: Rohs |
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As one who works for one of those big suppliers of electronic equipment to
DOD I can tell you that there certainly have been problems with lead free
soldering of components. The biggest one is called "tin whiskers". Over
time the large amount of tin used in the lead-free process tends to migrate
from place to place on the circuit boards (in microscopic traces, hence the
whisker notation) and shorts out electronic components, not a good thing!!!
I really wouldn't care if the Europeans wanted to further trash their
societies with all this "sky is falling" hysteria on every little so-called
pollutant, or their ridiculous affinity for political correctness and
socialism, if they weren't always trying to shove it down America's throat
as well.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Tampa Bay area
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matronics(at)rtist.nl
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:22 am Post subject: Rohs |
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Dont want to get into a political discussion, and as a European citizen I
agree that many of these regulations are way over the edge, but I must
object to your "shove it down America's throat" comment.
Europeans and other people around the world are experiencing America's
self-centered rules and regulations every day, from invasions on our privacy
(database searches through our private bank information by the CIA), stupid
security measures at our domestic airports because of US regulations,
privacy invasions with background searches for each flight, and ridiculous
impact on our businesses (Sarbanes-Oxley, DMCA). So when Americans are asked
to comply with world-wide regulations this has nothing to do with 'shoving
through your throat'. Besides, if it was such a big deal, the US would have
ignored the RoHS guidelines alltogether (Kyoto anyone?!?)
Rob
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n395v
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:34 am Post subject: Re: Rohs |
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| Quote: | Europeans and other people around the world are experiencing America's
self-centered rules and regulations every day, from invasions on our privacy
(database searches through our private bank information by the CIA), stupid
security measures at our domestic airports because of US regulations,
privacy invasions with background searches for each flight, and ridiculous
impact on our businesses |
Real easy to solve Rob,
Better protection on your computers, do not allow flights to or from the U.S., do not allow U.S. products in your country, do not ship any of your products to the U.S.
If there are any American Military bases in your country take them over, shut them down and send our servicemen home. Then encourage all your neighboring countries to do the same.
I am sure Russia and China will be happy to become your new best friends and certainly they will be more than happy to help out if a time of great need ever arises. Of course they will never try to impose any self centered rules upon you and will never snoop through your databases.
Or maybe you could cozy up to Iran, they have oil to sell.
The French can always be counted on to lend a hand also.
do not archive
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Milt |
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khorton01(at)rogers.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:36 am Post subject: Rohs |
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This discussion could become a complete fur ball very quickly. We
aren't going to solve all the world's political, environmental,
terrorism, etc problems here, as there are too many different
viewpoints, each of which is perceived as correct in the eyes of its
holder.
How about we all just agree to disagree on any non-AeroElectric
issues, and go back to subject areas that properly belong on this List.
Kevin Horton
On 3 Sep 2007, at 08:34, N395V wrote:
| Quote: |
<airboss(at)excaliburaviation.com>
> Europeans and other people around the world are experiencing
> America's
> self-centered rules and regulations every day, from invasions on
> our privacy
> (database searches through our private bank information by the
> CIA), stupid
> security measures at our domestic airports because of US regulations,
> privacy invasions with background searches for each flight, and
> ridiculous
> impact on our businesses
Real easy to solve Rob,
Better protection on your computers, do not allow flights to or
from the U.S., do not allow U.S. products in your country, do not
ship any of your products to the U.S.
If there are any American Military bases in your country take them
over, shut them down and send our servicemen home. Then encourage
all your neighboring countries to do the same.
I am sure Russia and China will be happy to become your new best
friends and certainly they will be more than happy to help out if a
time of great need ever arises. Of course they will never try to
impose any self centered rules upon you and will never snoop
through your databases.
Or maybe you could cozy up to Iran, they have oil to sell.
The French can always be counted on to lend a hand also.
do not archive
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
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aurbo(at)ak.net
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:08 am Post subject: Rohs |
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Kevin,
I agree. First it is telephones, now it is geo politics. What's next? TV
shows?
And I can't even get a simple question answered concerning e/p mag wiring.
Do not archive
Mike
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walter.fellows(at)gmail.c
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:01 am Post subject: Rohs |
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Agree or at least label the reference line as "POLITICAL COMMENT - NOT AIRPLANE RELATED."
On 9/3/07, Michael T. Ice < aurbo(at)ak.net (aurbo(at)ak.net)> wrote:[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michael T. Ice" < aurbo(at)ak.net (aurbo(at)ak.net)>
Kevin,
I agree. First it is telephones, now it is geo politics. What's next? TV
shows?
And I can't even get a simple question answered concerning e/p mag wiring.
Do not archive
Mike
---
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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject: Rohs |
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At 02:50 AM 9/3/2007 -0400, you wrote:
| Quote: |
<dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
As one who works for one of those big suppliers of electronic equipment to
DOD I can tell you that there certainly have been problems with lead free
soldering of components. The biggest one is called "tin whiskers". Over
time the large amount of tin used in the lead-free process tends to migrate
from place to place on the circuit boards (in microscopic traces, hence the
whisker notation) and shorts out electronic components, not a good thing!!!
I really wouldn't care if the Europeans wanted to further trash their
societies with all this "sky is falling" hysteria on every little so-called
pollutant, or their ridiculous affinity for political correctness and
socialism, if they weren't always trying to shove it down America's throat
as well.
|
Political issues aside, the biggest problems we're looking at
with respect to RoHS compliance are the 100F higher flow temps
of present lead-free offerings. In days of yore, one was advised
to hold the lead wires of a solid state device with a pair of needle
nose pliers while soldering the joints . . . so as to preclude
damage to the fragile "chip" . . . nowadays, we run boards
chips and all through big ovens designed to flow little pads
of solder paste upon which each component sits. 63/37 PbSn
is the lowest temp product to date. The 100F jump in flow temps
for the new solders presents some big reliability issues
for components "cooked" at higher temperatures.
The lead free solders are not as resistant to cracking under
vibration and yes, there's the tin-whiskers. For the moment,
aviation is exempt from the lead-free push in Europe but it's
probably inevitable. It's been suggested that all future
devices assembled with 63/37 PbSn be fitted with warning
labels and return postage guaranteed back to the point of
origin. The idea is that when the device is ready for the
scrap heap, one simply drops it in the nearest mailbox and
the "problem child" is whisked back to its parents!
It would be interesting to bury a bunch of old TV sets
and come back in 20 years to do soil samples and see
just how far the problem material has migrated into
the soil. Even if we DID find noteworthy elevations of
lead, what is the significance of the finding? It's
not like this is a new thing. Aspen CO went through a
long ordeal with the EPA a few years ago. See:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xo2k0_are-we-scaring-ourselves-to-death-3_news
Folks in this part of the world decided to mount the great
battle through environmental regulation (not laws mind
you but requirements drafted by folks with no real
knowledge, understanding or accountability). In other
parts of the world, they've crafted restrictions against
commerce but the same quality of administrators are
tasked with the job of making us all "safe".
Whatever the outcomes, it's not going to be cheap,
the lives saved will be un-quantified, and the folks
writing/enforcing the regulations today will be retired
at 75% of base pay patting themselves on the back for
having "done a good job".
For me at least, I never miss a chance to stock
up on my favorite forms of 63/37 . . . and I'm not
planning to change over soon. The risk and expense
for not doing it are incalculable while the risks
for jumping on the band-wagon are real and
demonstrable.
Bob . . .
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