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A123 Systems Nano-phosphate technology

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: A123 Systems Nano-phosphate technology

At 01:32 PM 9/7/2007 -0600, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Whomever is designing the electronics doesn't have real experience with 

A123 Systems cells. They think they are dealing with conventional Li-Ion 

cells, and they are wrong.



    A123 Systems nano-phosphate cells are quite different than other 

 Li-Ion cells. They will take a LOT of abuse. About the same amount as an 

 AGM. It is straightforward to make a drop-in replacement for a 12 volt 

 (or 24 volt) lead-acid battery using A123 Systems cells. The existing 

 charging system will work just fine. (It must have the voltage set 

 somewhere between 13.5 and 14.8 volts.)


	


   Agreed, they are quite rugged compared to other devices

   of this class . . . but as you've just noted one "must"

   place some constraints on other features in the system

   that do not already exist to support the legacy

   battery technologies.

 	  Quote: 	
		      In an airplane, you would want a warning that alerted the pilot that 

 the system was going over 14.8 volts and would make noise if the system 

 was going over 15 volts. It would also be useful to know if the battery 

 temperature was going over 80 Celsius. (You can go up to about 100 C 

 without damage, but no higher or you risk venting the cells and damaging 

 the plastic separator.)


	


    <snip>

 	  Quote: 	
		      If you overcharge them grossly, they will vent a small amount of 

 flammable vapor (like paint thinner.) If there is an ignition source, 

 this vapor could catch fire. The cells can also burst if overcharged 

 severely. That is the extent of the hazard this technology presents.



Bill Dube'


	




    To be sure, these cells are one of the bright stars on

    the horizon . . . but they come with a legacy of unhappy

    stories, myths and concerns. There is a great deal of work

    to be accomplished before the FAA is going to "feel" comfortable

    with putting this product on a TC aircraft. Since the FAA's

    general level of expertise is less than stellar, the task

    of the competent system integrator has as much to do with

    the politics of assuaging feelings as with the development

    of the science and good practice.



    Believe me, by the time my principal (and the Navy's battery

    labs in Crane, IN) get done with these cells, far more will

    be known about them than what's presently published. Further,

    it's almost a given that the successful, TC'd replacement

    batteries in Li-Ion technologies will not be simple

    substitutes of SVLA or NiCad cells.



    Bob . . .

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William.P.Dube(at)noaa.go
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:41 am Post subject: A123 Systems Nano-phosphate technology

 	  Quote: 	
		  

    To be sure, these cells are one of the bright stars on

    the horizon . . . but they come with a legacy of unhappy

    stories, myths and concerns.


	




    These nano-phosphate A123 Systems cells use an Iron-phosphate paste 

instead of the traditional cobalt-based paste. They are an entirely 

different creature becasue of this. Too bad that they are lumped in with 

the "flame-thrower" style cobalt cells.



Bill Dube'

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