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Finishing Rudder?

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a.s.elliott(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: Finishing Rudder?

Gang:

  

 The photo guide for the rudder ends before the lower fairing, control horn  and hinges are installed.  Is there a photo guide which covers finishing  the rudder and installing it on the fuselage?  Or do you just work off the  plans?  Is there an "accepted way to line everything up and hold it in  place before installing the hinges?  

  

 Thanks,

 Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ

N601GE (reserved)

601XL/TD/QB,  Corvair, building...

   [quote][b]

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:00 am Post subject: Finishing Rudder?

Andy,



I followed the plans and just located the hinge points on the rudder as they are dimensioned on the drawings. When I went to connect the rudder to the fuselage, I found that I had to shim the upper hinge plate; about .040" if I remember correctly.  I would suggest that you not install the upper hinge bracket until you can locate it using the fuselage hinge plates.



Jay in Dallas  

"Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Gang:



The photo guide for the rudder ends before the lower fairing, control horn and hinges are installed.  Is there a photo guide which covers finishing the rudder and installing it on the fuselage?  Or do you just work off the plans?  Is there an "accepted way to line everything up and hold it in place before installing the hinges?



Thanks,

Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ

N601GE (reserved)

601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: Finishing Rudder?

do not archive

  

 of course that means that you will not be able to deburr the fastener holes for fairly important non-redundant fasteners.

 

  Dave Downey

 Harleysville (SE) PA

 100 HP Corvair



 



 ---

GLJSOJ1

Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 82
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:39 am Post subject: Finishing Rudder?

Andy

 My construction manual says to not put the hinges on the rudder untill you are ready to put it on the fuselage so that it will all mattch up.  Mine did match the drawing, but it could be a problem down the road if hinges are already riveted intoplace.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 08:59:16 -0400

 From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Finishing Rudder?

 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jaybannist(at)cs.com

 Andy,

 I followed the plans and just located the hinge points on the rudder as they are dimensioned on the drawings. When I went to connect the rudder to the fuselage, I found that I had to shim the upper hinge plate; about .040" if I remember correctly. I would suggest that you not install the upper hinge bracket until you can locate it using the fuselage hinge plates.

 Jay in Dallas 

 "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net> wrote:

 >Gang:

 >

 >The photo guide for the rudder ends before the lower fairing, control horn and hinges are installed. Is there a photo guide which covers finishing the rudder and installing it on the fuselage? Or do you just work off the plans? Is there an "accepted way to line everything up and hold it in place before installing the hinges?

 >

 >Thanks,

 >Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ

 >N601GE (reserved)

 >601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...

 >

 _-==============================================

 ================

Explore the seven wonders of the world Learn more!  [quote][b]

_________________
601XL N676L FLYING PHASE I
CHESAPEAKE VA

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:45 am Post subject: Finishing Rudder?

Not so. There are tools for blind deburring the backside of a hole.



Dred



---- David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   do not archive


	


of course that means that you will not be able to deburr the fastener holes for fairly important non-redundant fasteners.

 

Dave Downey

Harleysville (SE) PA

100 HP Corvair

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:38 am Post subject: Finishing Rudder?

Dave, I would use one of those "both sides" de-burring tools. - Jay

David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



[quote]do not archive



of course that means that you will not be able to deburr the fastener holes for fairly important non-redundant fasteners.



Dave Downey

Harleysville (SE) PA

100 HP Corvair



---

agibeaut

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 64

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:43 am Post subject: Finishing Rudder?

Where did you guys find the "both sides" deburring tools?

 Do not archive



---

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:10 am Post subject: Finishing Rudder?

Check items number 1 and 6 on the following webpage.



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/search.php



Dred



---- Art Gibeaut <aagibeaut(at)yahoo.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Where did you guys find the "both sides" deburring tools?

  Do not archive

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: Finishing Rudder?

Let's try that again. Click on these two links:



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/deburringtool.php



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/averymultiburr.php



Dred



 	  Quote: 	
		   ---- Art Gibeaut <aagibeaut(at)yahoo.com> wrote: 

 > 

 > 

 > Where did you guys find the "both sides" deburring tools?

 >  Do not archive

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: Finishing Rudder?

do not archive

  

 blind side deburring tools work well on single details. Those fasteners go through the rudder spar and the spar flange doublers. The interface is fasr more important to debur than either the front or back exposed face as the rivet can still provide some degree of clamping with burrs under the head and/or tail. When the sheets are shimmed apart by burrs you lose drastically more because one of the primary advantages of riveted joints is load transfer due to sheet to sheet friction - which can only be attained by close fitting sheets at the hole periphery.

 

  Dave Downey

 Harleysville (SE) PA

 100 HP Corvair



 



 ---

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:56 am Post subject: Finishing Rudder?

I'm fairly sure that I got mine at US Industrial Tool & Supply. - Jay



Art Gibeaut <aagibeaut(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



[quote]



Where did you guys find the "both sides" deburring tools?

 Do not archive



---

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject: Finishing Rudder?

The best tools cost a lot - but do the job accurately and repeatedly. They are made by Cogsdill and are called Burraway. see eBay item 300145563092 for example.

  

 Both of the tools at the links listed will certainly deburr holes but the burr removal is non-uniform by the nature of the tool design. Another less thasn desirable feature is that the amopunt of materiall removed on one of both sides is usually well in excess to the amount desired - on thin sheet (what we work with most of the time) the final gage of sheet left in bearing for the fasteneer is compromised by 25% or more.

  

 The way that the Cogsdill cutters work is that the little blade is spring loaded - and you can set that spring tension to get thet amount of material removal desired. The blade is replacable (costly!) when the old one is worn.

  

 The best way to deal with the burr issue is very high RPM, light pressure, appropriate lubricant, step drilling, very sharp drills, correctly pointed drills, and tightly clamped work pieces when drilling. the last item is also very important if you desire to have structure without puckers and bulges along the rivet lines. The closer the fastener holes, the higher the Cleco count, and the better the quality of the holes drilled, the less a problem with burrs and the better the final product will look and work. If you drill a hole at #30 in one step by following all the best practice items listed here you will have a larger burr between details than if you step drill.

  

 Back to the original item: The upper rudder hinge details are retained entirely by hollow rivets in tension; it does not amtter at all the size of the rivet - I still want perfect load paths in that assembly.



  Dave Downey

 Harleysville (SE) PA

 100 HP Corvair



 



 ---

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject: Finishing Rudder?

Use a new drill bit and a high speed drill and you will have very little 

or no burr to deal with.



David Downey wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    

 blind side deburring tools work well on single details. Those fasteners 

 go through the rudder spar and the spar flange doublers. The interface 

 is fasr more important to debur than either the front or back exposed 

 face as the rivet can still provide some degree of clamping with burrs 

 under the head and/or tail. When the sheets are shimmed apart by 

 burrs you lose drastically more because one of the primary advantages of 

 riveted joints is load transfer due to sheet to sheet friction - which 

 can only be attained by close fitting sheets at the hole periphery.

  


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:56 pm Post subject: Finishing Rudder?

http://cogsdill-nuneaton.co.uk/Documents/Deburring%20Catalogue.pdf

  

 I never used the Burr-Off® cutters but they look interesting. i will try anf find one at a decent price and see if it is any better than the Burraway® cutter. 

  

 Note this guys: when the proper blade rakes and spring tensions are set, this tool does what we want from a deburrer: it cuts a minimal amount of structural material and removes the burrs very uniformly around the hole allowing optimal properties from the installed fastener (regardless of the fastener type) with minimal effort. 

  Dave Downey

 Harleysville (SE) PA

 100 HP Corvair



 



 ---

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:19 pm Post subject: Finishing Rudder?

another company that makes a nice tool is http://www.ezburr.com/

 

  Dave Downey

 Harleysville (SE) PA

 100 HP Corvair



 



 ---

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