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Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

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Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:30 am Post subject: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

Here is the email chain I had with Ameri-King about there plans for a 406 Mhz ELT.



Thank You

Ray Doerr

40250

N519RV (Hobbs = 310)

Looking forward to LOE 07

--

Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:52 am Post subject: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

Good information, Ray.  Did they happen to mention their proposed price

for the AK-451?



Jack Phillips

#40610 



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poneill(at)irealms.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:21 am Post subject: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

With regard to the GPS location data option, has anyone seen any statistics

on the benefit of this?  How accurate is the satellite positioning on the

406 mhz units?   Is the accuracy such that the GPS link makes a big

difference in locating the beacon?



Best Regards,

Patrick #40715



--

james.k.hovis(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

I think it could make a big difference in time needed to locate a

beacon. Older ELT's bsically just send out a toned signal. You need

direction finding radio equipment to find the bearing to the

transmitter and then triangulate that with one or two other DF

stations to find the location. This could take some time. Also,

transmitter power and terrain may limit the effectiveness of the DF

equipment recieving the signal. As far as accuracy of the GPS reading,

the ELT itself will contain a GPS reciever that should be as accurate

as any other TSO'd GPS unit. The ELT signal will contain a data stream

containing the GPS coordinates that is relayed by satellite to the

central processing center. Once the coordinates are decoded, this can

be relayed to the rescue units. This should save quite a bit of time.

Of course, the accuracy of the GPS data the ELT transmits is a

function of how many GPS satellites it "sees" at any one time (need at

least three), just as it is with any GPS unit. In a crash I suppose

this could be an issue.



Kevin H.



On 9/12/07, Patrick ONeill <poneill(at)irealms.com> wrote:

[quote] 



 With regard to the GPS location data option, has anyone seen any statistics

 on the benefit of this?  How accurate is the satellite positioning on the

 406 mhz units?   Is the accuracy such that the GPS link makes a big

 difference in locating the beacon?



 Best Regards,

 Patrick #40715



 --

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:14 am Post subject: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

 	  Quote: 	
		  From what I have read, GPS data get's you a couple things.  First and foremost it gives rescuers immediate coordinates to begin their search within a 100 meter radius.  With just the 406 beacon, it will take several passes of low orbit SAR satellites to narrow down your location using Doppler Shift.  The feds also say accuracy using DS is 1-3 miles, time & samples variable.


	


Michael



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Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:11 am Post subject: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

No, Ameri-King did not indicate the price or timeframe for this new ELT, I was just glad to hear we are going to have competition in this space.

	

	As for the GPS option on the ELT, I for one was hoping to not have another GPS in my airplane, when I already have 3.  I have dual Garmin 430W which are WAAS certified and a Garmin 496 handheld.  I am wanting to connect the RS-232 aviation output from one of my 430W to the ELT and then have the ELT keep a copy of the latest GPS Sentence which has the Long/Lat and then transmit that, if the ELT was activated.  But so far, I think all ELT's with the GPS option are embedding it into the ELT itself, so now you will likely need another GPS Antenna mounted on top and I don't want that.  With everything having GPS in it in the future, I can see a time where we have 4+ GPS Antenna's on the plane.  One for you Panel Mount, Handheld, ADSB UAT and ELT.  I am just trying to minimize this.  There is no reason the ADSB UAT and the ELT can't use the output from my 430W!





Thank You

Ray Doerr

40250

N519RV (Going to LOE 07)



--

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:36 am Post subject: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

When thinking about integrating devices, it's not always best to have all of your eggs in one basket.  In my mind I would want a completely independent system when it comes to SAR.  For instance, the ELT runs off its own internal power, isolating it from ship faults.  Another potential problem is what if you were to lose ship power completely in IFR.  It's totally feasible to carry on for quite a while using vacuum instruments but your ELT would now have coordinates that would have the SAR teams in a completely different area.



  Integration is a good thing under normal conditions.  But when your ELT needs to be used, you are usually outside the normal envelope and all bets are off.  Really stop and think about what integration vs. stand alone get's you for saving that extra couple bucks and a few ounces.  To each his own but I want something that is isolated from ship functions when it may make the difference between finding me or being one of the 8 other aircraft out there that is found years later while looking for someone famous.  God speed to all those lost souls.



Michael



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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:41 am Post subject: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

One other thing to add.  When you survive a forced landing in the mountains, it would be nice to pull the ELT and take it with you.  If you are integrated with the ships GPS it might get a bit messy ripping out a surviving GPS and rigging up a cable to get the ELT to update your coordinates when you go and seek shelter, water, or food.  Then there is the problem of carrying around a heavy battery, etc.  You get my point.  



Michael



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Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

Good point, maybe we can at least get them to design a integrated Antenna for both GPS and 406 Mhz transmission.



Thank You

Ray Doerr

--

Mike Whisky

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 336
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

There was a new ELT presented at Oshkosh.



http://en.martec.fr/page/p-191/art_id-/



They claim to be better than the competition.



Michael



www.wellenzohn.net  (just painted the interior)

_________________
RV-10 builder (flying)
#511

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:53 am Post subject: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

Michael,

did you see their price?  Christen sells one for close to 2300$ wonder 

what the difference to the ME406 is as it seems currently the cheapest 

on the market.



br Werner



Michael Wellenzohn wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 There was a new ELT presented at Oshkosh.



 http://en.martec.fr/page/p-191/art_id-/



 They claim to be better than the competition.



 Michael



 www.wellenzohn.net  (just painted the interior)



 --------

 RV-10 builder (wings)

 #511





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134341#134341

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:58 am Post subject: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

On another note, AOPA plans to fight any mandatory upgrades to 406 because of the large price difference.....



http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070913elt.html



Michael



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GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:21 am Post subject: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

Michael...I know AOPA is fighting this with good cause for us...but also be aware that the USAF informed the CAP folks that they will no be accepting the old 121.5 code for SAR's in the future.  The will only be responding to the 406 series for SAR's...I don't know how they are going to handle a physical report for an over due aircraft, though.  

  

 When you read on these ELT's you'd believe they are all fail safe which they are not.  CAP still finds down aircraft via search in air and on ground besides electronic methods...but it's not so immediate, though.

  

 Patrick



See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

moons1999(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:26 am Post subject: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

It seems to me that they are fighting the wrong battle.   What they should be doing is working on ways to get more companies to manufacture them so there is more competition and (hopefully) lower prices.  I will admit, though, that it seems that in aerospace the first company to market sets the price and then everyone else just seems to follow that pricing.  It seems to me that the 406 is a much better solution yet things like this only prove to impede the acceptance of the newer standards.

 

--Shawn

40366 - Wings



---

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:06 am Post subject: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

This is very true, but it gives people options like keeping your existing ELT until prices drop a bit and using a portable 406 PLB like the MicroFix.  I expect that most airliners and many other aircraft will continue to fly with their second radio tuned to 121.5 as good members of the community.  For me this seems like a good compromise and allows for portability that you just can’t get in the on board units.  When the on board units drop in price to a reasonable figure I will then replace and have two levels of redundancy for that rare case I need SAR to find me.   

   

  Yes for this to work it requires the PLB to be activated prior to an incident in case of unconsciousness.  I plan to mount it somewhere in arms reach so that I can add it to the emergency checklist.  The nice thing with the Microfix is it’s  just a matter of hitting one button and freeing the antenna.  If it’s secured someplace like under my legs, it has a very good chance of surviving if I do.  And with the canopy being made of fiberglass it is essentially transparent to the beacon.  

   

My $0.02  

Michael  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com

 Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 9:21 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.  

  

  

     

Michael...I know AOPA is fighting this with good cause for us...but also be aware that the USAF informed the CAP folks that they will no be accepting the old 121.5 code for SAR's in the future.  The will only be responding to the 406 series for SAR's...I don't know how they are going to handle a physical report for an over due aircraft, though.    

    

   

    

When you read on these ELT's you'd believe they are all fail safe which they are not.  CAP still finds down aircraft via search in air and on ground besides electronic methods...but it's not so immediate, though.  

    

   

    

Patrick  

  



 

         

  

See what's new at Make AOL Your Homepage.  

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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:46 am Post subject: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

Wondering....this might be a good place for the experimental

community to step in.  Perhaps a manufacturer to offer a well-priced

experimental product, or, maybe we use some brain power.  It wouldn't

seem to hard to take an existing ELT case, leave the switches and

crash sensing stuff, and rip the guts out and install a good

GPS equipped PLB and maybe adjust the antenna length accordingly.

In fact, if done right, you could use a GPS equipped PLB that

could be removed after crash for when you're hiking it

back to camp.  Ideally, we'd have a product that would offer the

best of all worlds....a manually switch-on-able portable built

in GPS, with a removable handheld module for hiking out,

and an external GPS feed for in-flight use pre-crash.  Seems

that if someone designed all this stuff there would not only

be a better product, but one that could be made cheaper or at

least be worth a thousand bucks.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     This is very true, but it gives people options like keeping your 

 existing ELT until prices drop a bit and using a portable 406 PLB like 

 the MicroFix.  I expect that most airliners and many other aircraft will 

 continue to fly with their second radio tuned to 121.5 as good members 

 of the community.  For me this seems like a good compromise and allows 

 for portability that you just can’t get in the on board units.  When the 

 on board units drop in price to a reasonable figure I will then replace 

 and have two levels of redundancy for that rare case I need SAR to find me.

 

  

 

   Yes for this to work it requires the PLB to be activated prior to an 

 incident in case of unconsciousness.  I plan to mount it somewhere in 

 arms reach so that I can add it to the emergency checklist.  The nice 

 thing with the Microfix is it’s  just a matter of hitting one button and 

 freeing the antenna.  If it’s secured someplace like under my legs, it 

 has a very good chance of surviving if I do.  And with the canopy being 

 made of fiberglass it is essentially transparent to the beacon.

 

  

 

 My $0.02

 

 Michael

 

  

 

 *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of 

 *GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com

 *Sent:* Friday, September 14, 2007 9:21 AM

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* Re: Re: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

 

  

 

 Michael...I know AOPA is fighting this with good cause for us...but also 

 be aware that the USAF informed the CAP folks that they will no be 

 accepting the old 121.5 code for SAR's in the future.  The will only be 

 responding to the 406 series for SAR's...I don't know how they are going 

 to handle a physical report for an over due aircraft, though. 

 

  

 

 When you read on these ELT's you'd believe they are all fail safe which 

 they are not.  CAP still finds down aircraft via search in air and on 

 ground besides electronic methods...but it's not so immediate, though.

 

  

 

 Patrick

 

 

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 See what's new at Make AOL Your Homepage.

 

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apilot2(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: Is AmeriKing going to create a 406 Mhz ELT.

A friend reported he had a 406 unit self activate while the aircraft was in hangar with no one around. I don't know how FAA will handle overdue and reports of aircraft hearing ELT, but I would expect they would be relaying to USAF expecting normal SAR treatment. 



On 9/14/07, GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com (GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com) <GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com (GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		       Michael...I know AOPA is fighting this with good cause for us...but also be aware that the USAF informed the CAP folks that they will no be accepting the old 121.5 code for SAR's in the future.  The will only be responding to the 406 series for SAR's...I don't know how they are going to handle a physical report for an over due aircraft, though.   

  

 When you read on these ELT's you'd believe they are all fail safe which they are not.  CAP still finds down aircraft via search in air and on ground besides electronic methods...but it's not so immediate, though. 

  

 Patrick



 See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

  



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