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skwgn(at)comcast.net Guest
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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:55 am Post subject: Light-Sport Pilots license |
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[quote]I have a Kitfox model 3. Someone just contacted me about buying it. They are pursuing a Light-Sport license. I don’t know the details of the new certification process but would he be legally qualified to fly the Kitfox? -Bob [b]
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Rhino
Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 56 Location: Xenia, Ohio
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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Light-Sport Pilots license |
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skwgn(at)comcast.net wrote: | I have a Kitfox model 3. Someone just contacted me about buying it. They are pursuing a Light-Sport license. I don’t know the details of the new certification process but would he be legally qualified to fly the Kitfox? -Bob [b] | There is no certification process needed. If the aircraft qualifies under LSA rules, he can fly it as a Sport Pilot.
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thesupe(at)hotmail.com Guest
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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:08 am Post subject: Light-Sport Pilots license |
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Should be no problem, gross weight for SP is 1320 lbs, 100 kts. maximum
speed, two seats. I've had the SP license for 2 years last June, flying
Avid B model and now a Mark IV. Jim Chuk, MK IV Avid
Quote: | From: "Bob Waldron" <skwgn(at)comcast.net>
Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Light-Sport Pilots license
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 10:55:06 -0600
I have a Kitfox model 3. Someone just contacted me about buying it. They
are pursuing a Light-Sport license.
I don't know the details of the new certification process but would he be
legally qualified to fly the Kitfox?
-Bob
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_________________________________________________________________
More photos; more messages; more whatever. Windows Live Hotmail - NOW with
5GB storage.
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:19 am Post subject: Light-Sport Pilots license |
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The term is Sport Pilot License (or Certificate). The "Light Sport"
part pertains to the aircraft in question.
Yes, the Kitfox Model III qualifies as a Light Sport Aircraft, and
can be flown by anyone with a Sport Pilot license/certificate or
higher (Private Pilot, etc) as long as they have been checked out in
that type of plane. This is providing that the plane in question
meets all the rules of the LSA requirements, and someone hasn't
installed a rocket in it. : )
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.....and I know you will. : )
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/400+ hrs
do not archive
On Sep 7, 2007, at 12:55 PM, Bob Waldron wrote:
Quote: | I have a Kitfox model 3. Someone just contacted me about buying
it. They are pursuing a Light-Sport license. I don’t know the
details of the new certification process but would he be legally
qualified to fly the Kitfox? -Bob
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-
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_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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wingnut
Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 356
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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Light-Sport Pilots license |
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You wouldn't happen to have an "in flight" adjustable IVO propeller? I understand that this is another way to disqualify an airplane from flying under LSA rules.
Quote: | I have a Kitfox model 3. Someone just contacted me about buying it. They are pursuing a Light-Sport license. I don’t know the details of the new certification process but would he be legally qualified to fly the Kitfox? |
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_________________ Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A) |
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kitfoxmike
Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Posts: 373
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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Light-Sport Pilots license |
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Even if the airplane has the inflight adjustable, which yes will disqualify, just route the switch to under the cowling, that way it's no longer inflight adjustable, has to be adjusted on the ground with the engine off. Now you don't have an inflight adjustable.
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wingnut
Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 356
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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Light-Sport Pilots license |
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Quote: | Even if the airplane has the inflight adjustable, which yes will disqualify, just route the switch to under the cowling, that way it's no longer inflight adjustable, has to be adjusted on the ground with the engine off. Now you don't have an inflight adjustable. |
Hmm. You sure about that? Bellow is a bit of text I copied from a Q&A on the EAA web site. It looks like the EAA disagrees with you on this point.
Question :
I've found an Avid MKIV which I would like to purchase. Does this aircraft meet LSA qualifications?
The aircraft has a Warp Drive in flight adjustable prop, will this have to be removed to meet qualifications?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer :
Since the aircraft has an in-flight adjustable propeller it does not meet the LSA definition. It will not meet the LSA definition even if the propeller is changed, and thus cannot be made eligible for operation by sport pilots. The LSA definition requires that the aircraft meet the definition at the time of its initial certification and continuously thereafter in order to be eligible to be operated by sport pilots. The aircraft you describe does not meet this criteria.
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_________________ Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A) |
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kitfoxmike
Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Posts: 373
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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Light-Sport Pilots license |
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THese are experimental. So what is inflight adjustable. Able to adjust while in flight from the cockpit?
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JimmieBlackwell(at)austin Guest
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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: Light-Sport Pilots license |
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I really do not want to start another argument on the subject, but it is
better that we know sport pilot rules. Even if you remove the in flight
adjustable prop a sport pilot cannot legally fly the plane, ever. In order
to meet the requirements for a sport pilot to fly the airplane legally it,
"must have been continuiously maintained throughout the life of the aircraft
with on a ground or fixed pitch prop."
Please do not take my word for it, ask Joe Norris at EAA.
Jimmie
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wingnut
Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 356
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torgemor(at)online.no Guest
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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:48 pm Post subject: Light-Sport Pilots license |
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Quote: | this is another way to disqualify an airplane from flying under LSA
rules.
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Just forgive them, -if you can, cause they're really don't know what
they're talking about!-
Torgeir --
-just 44 years in the aviation....!
- and flying behind an IVO
Sometimes really get mad.............
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:44:28 +0200, wingnut <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> wrote:
Quote: |
You wouldn't happen to have an "in flight" adjustable IVO propeller? I
understand that this is another way to disqualify an airplane from
flying under LSA rules.
> I have a Kitfox model 3. Someone just contacted me about buying it.
> They are pursuing a Light-Sport license. I don’t know the details of
> the new certification process but would he be legally qualified to fly
> the Kitfox?
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133259#133259
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--
Torgeir
Kitfox Model II, 1993
Engine: Rotax 532 with B gearbox
Propeller: IVO UL 366Q
Tromsoe
NORWAY.
Weather in Tromso right now:
http://met.no/troms/index.html
City map of Tromso:
http://www.avinor.no/English/Airports/Tromso_Airport/?module=Articles;action=ArticleFolder.publicOpenFolder;ID=1453
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
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clint_bazzill(at)hotmail. Guest
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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: Light-Sport Pilots license |
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I have an electric adjustable with the control on the instrument panel. My plane is licensed for an Ivoprop, nothing about CAP. Have the adjustment switch in engine compartment for LSA. Clint
[quote] Date: Sat8 Sep 2007 01:47:48 +0200
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Light-Sport Pilots license
From: torgemor(at)online.no
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor(at)online.no>
> this is another way to disqualify an airplane from flying under LSA
> rules.
Just forgive them, -if you can, cause they're really don't know what
they're talking about!-
Torgeir --
-just 44 years in the aviation....!
- and flying behind an IVO
Sometimes really get mad.............
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:44:28 +0200, wingnut <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com>
>
> You wouldn't happen to have an "in flight" adjustable IVO propeller? I
> understand that this is another way to disqualify an airplane from
> flying under LSA rules.
>
>
>> I have a Kitfox model 3. Someone just contacted me about buying it.
>> They are pursuing a Light-Sport license. I don’t know the details of
>> the new certification process but would he be legally qualified to fly
>> the Kitfox?
>
>
> --------
> Luis Rodriguez
> Model IV 1200
> Rotax 912UL
> Flying Weekly
> Laurens, SC (34A)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133259#133259
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Torgeir
Kitfox Model II, 1993
Engine: Rotax 532 with B gearbox
Propeller: IVO UL 366Q
Tromsoe
NORWAY.
Weather in Tromso right now:
http://met.no/troms/index.html
City map of Tromso:
http://www.avinor.no/English/Airports/Tromso_Airport/?module=Articles;action=ArticleFolder.publicOpenFolder;ID=1453
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail cl========
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 2704 Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject: Light-Sport Pilots license |
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There may be an argument to be made that the prop is not part of the
structure of the plane but an appliance. As such by installing it you
disallow the sport rating on the plane as long as the appliance is attached.
I'll bet making that argument would be expensive and of course iffy as to
whether or not you would win.
Noel
[quote] --
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_________________ Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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dcsfoto
Joined: 24 Aug 2006 Posts: 120
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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Light-Sport Pilots license |
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the FAA has been ask and agrees that putting the switch in a location that can only be reached on the ground is ok
David
do not arcive
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clint_bazzill(at)hotmail. Guest
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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject: Light-Sport Pilots license |
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AGAIN, CHECK YOUR PAPER WORK. IF IT SAYS PROP IS IVOPROP. AS LONG AS IT DOESNT SAY IN FLIGHT ADJUSTABLE. CLINT
> Subject: Re: Light-Sport Pilots license
Quote: | From: wingnut(at)spamarrest.com
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:14:03 -0700
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com>
> Even if the airplane has the inflight adjustable, which yes will disqualify, just route the switch to under the cowling, that way it's no longer inflight adjustable, has to be adjusted on the ground with the engine off. Now you don't have an inflight adjustable.
Hmm. You sure about that? Bellow is a bit of text I copied from a Q&A on the EAA web site. It looks like the EAA disagrees with you on this point.
Question :
I've found an Avid MKIV which I would like to purchase. Does this aircraft meet LSA qualifications?
The aircraft has a Warp Drive in flight adjustable prop, will this have to be removed to meet qualifications?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer :
Since the aircraft has an in-flight adjustable propeller it does not meet the LSA definition. It will not meet the LSA definition even if the propeller is changed, and thus cannot be made eligible for operation by sport pilots. The LSA definition requires that the aircraft meet the definition at the time of its initial certification and continuously thereafter in order to be eligible to be operated by sport pilots. The aircraft you describe does not meet this criteria.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133277#133277
<======
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[quote][b]
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Rhino
Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 56 Location: Xenia, Ohio
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:57 am Post subject: Re: Light-Sport Pilots license |
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dcsfoto wrote: | the FAA has been ask and agrees that putting the switch in a location that can only be reached on the ground is ok
David |
I would be interested in seeing a source for that.
The sticking point is in 14 CFR Part 1.1, where it says "Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet the following:...(7) A fixed or ground-adjustable propeller if a powered aircraft other than a powered glider."
It seems pretty clear that the restriction is permanent, even if an aircraft is later physically brought back into LSA compliance. However, the phrase "since its original certification" seems to indicate that this restriction may be intended for certified aircraft only. I would love to see an authoritative (FAA) source state emphatically whether or not this permanent restriction also applies to amateur built experimentals. There are many differing opinions about this on the internet, but I have yet to see anything from the FAA that states the case in no uncertain terms.
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av8rps(at)tznet.com Guest
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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:46 am Post subject: Light-Sport Pilots license |
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I have had an FAA person mention moving the switch on an IVO prop electric
prop so it was accessible only from the ground as being legit under the LSA
rules. But that was somewhat a tongue in cheek response to me asking about
a particular friends airplane. In other words, you may and you may not get
away with that.
I believe the regs state that if ever the plane is equipped with an inflight
prop, it will remove it from Light Sport eligibility. So what you need to do
is check to see if the airplane was certified with an inflight prop, and if
it's written anywhere in the logs or the airworthiness or operating
limitation paperwork. If not, I doubt putting a ground adjustable prop on
it (whatever you want to call a ground adjustable prop) will be a problem.
BUT according to the rules, technically the aircraft is no longer eligible
for Light Sport status if it ever has had an in flight adjustable prop on
it. (fwiw - I think that is stupid, but it is the rule...)
Out of respect for all the FAA has granted us under Sport Pilot, as a group
I think we should try not to "push" the LSA limits by admitting to moving
switches, etc. That could sacrifice the credibility we have as sport pilots
to the FAA. If you really want an inflight prop, just get a private pilot
license. Or, get everyone together to start a letter writing campaign to
request the FAA allow in flight props under light sport rules. I perceive
that if enough people ask for reasonable changes in the rule, the FAA will
actually listen and possibly change them. After all, that's how the Light
Sport Aircraft and Pilot rule got this far.
Just my two cents worth...
Paul Seehafer
Kitfox IV 912ul amphib
---
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