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New float flying vid

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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: New float flying vid

I made a quick vid of a little hunt we were on last week.  The camera man cant quit talking but once you get past that it is ok lol..



A little history, I put my floats on my brothers kitfox, as I have been having too much fun flying his plane since he got it up here to even think about working on mine.  I was not happy with the performance as I knew it could do better.  I have moved the step location 3 times and changed the angle of incidence 3 times also.  In this video I had a bit too much angle of incidence on it.  You could get it off the water quick, but it had so much drag it slowed me down 8 knots.  I added a 3/4" shim to the rear float mount and now have it nailed.  The cruise is still good 70 knots at 5800, and takeoff is great with no tendency to porpoise.



At about 6:00 minutes into the vid you can see the slew I was taking off of in the first part of the vid, and at 6:10 you can see the little pond.  The rest of the vid is just a small part of the flats we hunt.  The ducks and geese are really starting to move through and KF makes it a breeze to hunt the area.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foPn48ap46Y

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Last edited by akflyer on Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

jtayloraaf(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: New float flying vid

wow!!! lenny.  that was just too much fun.... tnx so much for sharing that with us.  i'm john bowman down here in sout la (prairieville) still trying to get my avid hh covered.  that fox-- what engine again?? i've got that decision to make & the huge $$ to come up with..... between the jab & the rotax 9's....also looking at a new belgium engine, close to 100 hp, electronic ignitiion, but no usage data yet available & it's very expensive (more than the rotax 80 912) but apparently extremely well engineered. i'll send web site if u'r interested.  tnx again.  & take care. looks like home except for the snow & ice that's coming or is it?  will global warming turn it  into new iberia afore long? are u all up there working in the way cool oil patch? or did u just take a wrong turn.  also, now soldatna sounds like the little place where we took a bush plane ride (old 180 on wheels) up to the big mtn & then down on the grass tops looking for bear etc... have names of the pilot & his lady who rode with us if it's the same place - u must know them if they're still around.  my fantasy is to bring my avid back up there flyin & riding in a trlr & air tour some of the places we visited a couple of yrs back.  u be careful now!! u make the lotus float ads come alive.  i hope they appreciate u!!! john b.



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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: New float flying vid

he has a 582 in it with IVO IFA 68" 3 blade.  I am ordering a set of 72" 2 blade to see if I can get just a bit more thrust out of it.  I know that on my pacer I went from a 76X58 cruise prop to a 81X42 climb prop and holy cow did it make a difference in getting off the water..went from a 1500'+ take off run to around 350'  only lost 15 knots of cruise

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: New float flying vid

Nice video there. 



What ratio you got  2.58 ? 

I tried 2.62 on E box this year but lost take off and cruise speed over the 3.00 to 1 gear. 



I have a 72 "  IVO medium 2 blade on now and it really not alot different than my WARP 68"  three blade.  



You won't see a Jabiru on floats perform like that.   912 yes but not a jab or VW unless  geared with a bigger prop.

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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: New float flying vid

2.62  How can it loose performance?  You should be spinning the prop a bit faster.  Most guys that tried 3:1 said they went back to 2.62... I cant say as I have never tried the 3:1.  Were you swinging a longer prop at 3:1?



I would really be interested in getting a bit more thrust for mine for taking off the grass or coming up on step when at "gross" or a tad over..

propellerdesign(at)tele2.
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:11 pm Post subject: New float flying vid

Why not a BMW 1100 S,  85-90 HP low fuel  consumption.

 lot cheaper then the other.

  

 Jan

 [quote]   ---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:27 am Post subject: Re: New float flying vid

I tried 4 different props and re-pitched each accordingly with the 2.62  gear.  On amphibs on grass take off went from 350 to 450 feet.

Cruise speed dropped about 5-6  mph and climb I lost about 200 fpm.   I flew for about  10 hours with that gear set and quickly changed back to the 3 to 1 gears.   I would like to try 3.5:1 gears as well.    I did think the faster spinning prop would have cost me some take off  but I also thought that  it would give me extra cruise.  It was louder as well with the prop spinning about 300 rpm faster as well  but no where near the tip speed of lycoming  or the noise.



What Box do you have ?   You can likely pick up a used box  to  try cheaper than new gears to try. If you no like just peddle on Ebay.  



Cruise speed on amphibs  with  3 to 1  is  85 mph   and was barely 80 with mph with  2.62s  on a good day.



Slower turning prop has worked better for me  and I guess it does give more torque to the prop for take off and at the speeds we fly at.   I should try them again on wheels and see what happens.



 	  Quote: 	
		  2.62 How can it loose performance? You should be spinning the prop a bit faster. Most guys that tried 3:1 said they went back to 2.62... I cant say as I have never tried the 3:1. Were you swinging a longer prop at 3:1?

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:28 am Post subject: Re: New float flying vid

With the IFA I set it at minimum pitch (high pitch blades) that gives me about 6150 to 6250 on the take off run, as soon as I break water and pick the nose up it jumps to 6400 so I start adding pitch to keep RPM and EGT under control.  In cruise I set power and prop to give me 5800 and 1100 EGT.  This works out to a fuel burn of about 5 gallons and hour and 70 knots GS depending on wind.



I have heard arguments that the 3 blade WARP pulls harder than the IVO If the 72" is comparable or slightly better than the WARP I would really like to try it out.  I cant justify the money at this time for a 912, but damn... I sure would like to fly one on floats to see what the extra power would do, I am betting that the extra 20 ponies would make one hellofa bird out of this..



As it is with the 582, full fuel, gear (decoys guns etc) and just me it is one heck of a plane, but add another 200# passenger and she is lacking on the water.  I normally have to make a gear run solo, then come back and pick up the passenger.  this is to be expected as I am asking a bit more than she was designed to do......  Once in the air it is fine, but getting from water to air takes a bit of room.



All in all, I am not sure one can ask for a better plane for the money spent ( you could ask but would be stupid for doing so), and for dang sure you cant have more fun than this and keep your clothes on!

av8rps(at)tznet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject: New float flying vid

Leonard,



A light Kitfox (or Avid) with even an 80 hp 912 on a set of non-amphib full 

lotus floats would be an awesome airplane.



I've flown a 582 Model IV on 1260 Lotus floats, and my IV-1200 on Aerocet 

amphibs so I know what you could expect.  While the 582 airplane is a fun, 

good performing airplane (the one I flew had a warp 3 blade, but performance 

was as you pretty much describe yours, maybe slightly less as no IFA on the 

warp), the 912 with a IVO IFA will give you supercub or better performance 

loaded or not (assuming you keep that IVO IFA on it - it definitely helps 

get off the water).  Mine is a HEAVY (776 pounds on the floats) model IV 

amphib, but yet will get off the water at 1200 pounds (2 people, 3 hrs fuel, 

and light on gear) in about 13-14 seconds on a 85 degree day, 5 mph wind, at 

1200 msl.  And it will easily cruise at 100+ mph.  Tops out at 124 mph.  I 

do think the lotus floats would slow it down a bit (10 mph would be my 

guess), but being non-amphib and obviously much lighter, would be a 

rocketship off the water.



I like the Lotus floats for the same reasons you do, the ability to bump 

into things without much concern.  My dislikes are rough water capability, 

step turning capability, general handling issues compared to a hard float, 

Utraviolet damage issues, air pressue monitoring, and no storage 

compartments.  But they do work on our little planes.



Here are a few pics showing what my Fox does (I can't download or upload 

video on my chipmunk powered internet dial up service, so this is the best I 

can do...)

I wish I could as your video sounds cool!



Paul Seehafer

Kitfox IV 912ul Amphib



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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:06 am Post subject: Re: New float flying vid

if you want a DVD PM me your addy..I have lots of real nice Alaska scenery and flying, it would be nothing to burn to DVD..

AS much as I hate the thought of spending the money on it.. I may have to seriously look for a 912.. good deal on 3 of them on Ebay right now..

av8rps(at)tznet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: New float flying vid

Hi Leonard,



I was so desparate to see your video I watched it on someone elses pc this 

weekend (smile), so I don't need you to burn a DVD.  Nice video.  Does a 

good job showing where the full lotus floats are really nice to have.  That 

little 582 Kitfox also looks to perform pretty good from what I could tell 

by your video.



You'd like the 912.



Paul Seehafer



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