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georgepowell(at)hotmail.c
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 Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:55 am Post subject: Tailplane integrity suggestion |
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I received several responses to my post a few days ago concerning the binding problem I am having with my torque tube (i.e., inability to fit into TP6 bushing). Phil advised that early versions of TP4 and the bushes were ground to match each other, rather that to standard drawing dimensions. I tried the other TP4 I have (the one installed on the plane) and it fit better, actually allowing me to get the starboard tailplane all the way on TP4 on the shop bench and seated into the TP13 bushes.
Unfortunately, I cannot get the tailplane on when TP4 is mounted on the fuselage, it is so tight. When I checked the port tailplane (and opened up the surface to reveal the TP6 bushing) it was clear on visual inspection that the TP6 was out of alignment by at least a millimeter. (These tailplanes were purchased from a charity which obtained them from an estate, so I do not know the provenance of the construction).
I will definitely have to remove/reseat the TP6 bushing on the port tailplane, and probably the starboard as well.
A thought occurred to me: why not have a tube machined that is one piece, the length from TP5 inboard to TP6 outboard and replacing both those bushings, instead of 2 bushes with space between them? Having the 2 bushes a distance apart seems to make it likely the 2 could be installed out of alignment, whereas a single tube/bushing could not possibly be.
Any thoughts on this suggestion? If I have to remove or reset both bushings in both tailplanes, it seems efficient to just replace both with a single tube, and guarantee the integrity of the tailplane retention (at least with respect to the possible unbonding of TP6).
Also, any suggestions on the proper technique to remove the bonded-in TP6 and TP5 bushes without damaging the surrounding material would be appreciated.
Thanks,
George Powell
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject: Tailplane integrity suggestion |
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On Saturday, September 22, 2007, at 11:54 AM, G&TPowell wrote:
| Quote: | A thought occurred to me: why not have a tube machined that is one
piece, the length from TP5 inboard to TP6 outboard and replacing both
those bushings, instead of 2 bushes with space between them? Having
the 2 bushes a distance apart seems to make it likely the 2 could be
installed out of alignment, whereas a single tube/bushing could not
possibly be.
|
Go for it George...yu da man!
Your thought has been advocated in the past and installed by some...at
least a variant there on.
Fred
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craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject: Tailplane integrity suggestion |
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<<A thought occurred to me: why not have a tube machined that is one piece,
the length from TP5 inboard to TP6 outboard and replacing both those
bushings, instead of 2 bushes with space between them? Having the 2 bushes
a distance apart seems to make it likely the 2 could be installed out of
alignment, whereas a single tube/bushing could not possibly be. >>
Yep I did exactly that, during construction I could see all the discussion
going on about tp6 i though it wasnt worth the stress, so down to the metal
shop found a 1m length of tube with an ID .08 of a mm different than the
tp6 ID it did have a thicker wall than original so a small countersink in
the
top allowed the pip pin to lock fully. I also having the extra length ran
the
tube into the outer foam core about 100mm or so. I epoxied the tube into the
inner foam, did the rib layup then coated the "excess" tube in epoxy and
slid
that into the outer, then glass as normal. It seems to work nicely, slides
on and off easily, no risk of damage to tp6 etc.
craig
2:02 PM
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kheindl(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject: Tailplane integrity suggestion |
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Hi George,
I aim to replace my TP5/TP6 with a one-piece aluminum tube from ACS, without
cutting into the taillplane, but by careful heat application. I have all I
need to do the job, but haven't had the time to try it out, as I'm busy
fitting glider wings. If it works I'll write it up if anyone else wants to
do the same.
Karl
| Quote: | From: "G&TPowell" <georgepowell(at)hotmail.com>
Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Tailplane integrity suggestion
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:54:42 +0300
<georgepowell(at)hotmail.com>
I received several responses to my post a few days ago concerning the
binding problem I am having with my torque tube (i.e., inability to fit
into TP6 bushing). Phil advised that early versions of TP4 and the bushes
were ground to match each other, rather that to standard drawing
dimensions. I tried the other TP4 I have (the one installed on the plane)
and it fit better, actually allowing me to get the starboard tailplane all
the way on TP4 on the shop bench and seated into the TP13 bushes.
Unfortunately, I cannot get the tailplane on when TP4 is mounted on the
fuselage, it is so tight. When I checked the port tailplane (and opened up
the surface to reveal the TP6 bushing) it was clear on visual inspection
that the TP6 was out of alignment by at least a millimeter. (These
tailplanes were purchased from a charity which obtained them from an
estate, so I do not know the provenance of the construction).
I will definitely have to remove/reseat the TP6 bushing on the port
tailplane, and probably the starboard as well.
A thought occurred to me: why not have a tube machined that is one piece,
the length from TP5 inboard to TP6 outboard and replacing both those
bushings, instead of 2 bushes with space between them? Having the 2 bushes
a distance apart seems to make it likely the 2 could be installed out of
alignment, whereas a single tube/bushing could not possibly be.
Any thoughts on this suggestion? If I have to remove or reset both
bushings in both tailplanes, it seems efficient to just replace both with a
single tube, and guarantee the integrity of the tailplane retention (at
least with respect to the possible unbonding of TP6).
Also, any suggestions on the proper technique to remove the bonded-in TP6
and TP5 bushes without damaging the surrounding material would be
appreciated.
Thanks,
George Powell
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
|
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rob(at)hyperion-ef.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject: Tailplane integrity suggestion |
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Beware. Aluminum has a tendency to gall, so if the fit is at all snug (which it should be) and the torque tube is not lubricated, the tailplane may not slide into place over the nickel plated tailplane torque tube as easily as it does with steel TP5/TP6. Once it jams it will be rather difficult to get free.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
| Quote: |
Hi George,
I aim to replace my TP5/TP6 with a one-piece aluminum tube from ACS, without
cutting into the taillplane, but by careful heat application. I have all I
need to do the job, but haven't had the time to try it out, as I'm busy
fitting glider wings. If it works I'll write it up if anyone else wants to
do the same.
Karl
>From: "G&TPowell" <georgepowell(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Tailplane integrity suggestion
>Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:54:42 +0300
>
>
><georgepowell(at)hotmail.com>
>
>I received several responses to my post a few days ago concerning the
>binding problem I am having with my torque tube (i.e., inability to fit
>into TP6 bushing). Phil advised that early versions of TP4 and the bushes
>were ground to match each other, rather that to standard drawing
>dimensions. I tried the other TP4 I have (the one installed on the plane)
>and it fit better, actually allowing me to get the starboard tailplane all
>the way on TP4 on the shop bench and seated into the TP13 bushes.
>
>Unfortunately, I cannot get the tailplane on when TP4 is mounted on the
>fuselage, it is so tight. When I checked the port tailplane (and opened up
>the surface to reveal the TP6 bushing) it was clear on visual inspection
>that the TP6 was out of alignment by at least a millimeter. (These
>tailplanes were purchased from a charity which obtained them from an
>estate, so I do not know the provenance of the construction).
>
>I will definitely have to remove/reseat the TP6 bushing on the port
>tailplane, and probably the starboard as well.
>
>A thought occurred to me: why not have a tube machined that is one piece,
>the length from TP5 inboard to TP6 outboard and replacing both those
>bushings, instead of 2 bushes with space between them? Having the 2 bushes
>a distance apart seems to make it likely the 2 could be installed out of
>alignment, whereas a single tube/bushing could not possibly be.
>
>Any thoughts on this suggestion? If I have to remove or reset both
>bushings in both tailplanes, it seems efficient to just replace both with a
>single tube, and guarantee the integrity of the tailplane retention (at
>least with respect to the possible unbonding of TP6).
>
>Also, any suggestions on the proper technique to remove the bonded-in TP6
>and TP5 bushes without damaging the surrounding material would be
>appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>George Powell
>Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
_________________________________________________________________
Get Pimped! FREE emoticon packs from Windows Live -
http://www.pimpmylive.co.uk
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kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:27 pm Post subject: Tailplane integrity suggestion |
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|
Hi Rob,
Thanks for the warning. I have already tried that out and the tubes slide
over very easily without play. I always keep the TP4's well lubricated
anyway, mainly to avoid corrosion, which I had noticed on the factory
demonstrators ; they are only nickel plated, anyway.
Aluminum makes a far better bond with epoxies than stainless steel. My TP5's
had already disbonded once from trailering.
When I removed the tailplanes after a busy flying season, I noticed that
there was no friction whatsoever between the pip pins and the assembly, so I
don't really understand all the fuss about these mysterious forces that rip
out the TP6. That accident was caused by something else entirely.
Regards,
Karl
| Quote: | From: Rob Housman <rob(at)hyperion-ef.com>
Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Tailplane integrity suggestion
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:53:54 -0400
Beware. Aluminum has a tendency to gall, so if the fit is at all snug
(which it should be) and the torque tube is not lubricated, the tailplane
may not slide into place over the nickel plated tailplane torque tube as
easily as it does with steel TP5/TP6. Once it jams it will be rather
difficult to get free.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS Tri-Gear
S/N A070
Airframe complete
>
>
>
>Hi George,
>
>I aim to replace my TP5/TP6 with a one-piece aluminum tube from ACS,
without
>cutting into the taillplane, but by careful heat application. I have all
I
>need to do the job, but haven't had the time to try it out, as I'm busy
>fitting glider wings. If it works I'll write it up if anyone else wants
to
>do the same.
>
>Karl
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: "G&TPowell" <georgepowell(at)hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Tailplane integrity suggestion
>>Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:54:42 +0300
>>
>>
>><georgepowell(at)hotmail.com>
>>
>>I received several responses to my post a few days ago concerning the
>>binding problem I am having with my torque tube (i.e., inability to fit
>>into TP6 bushing). Phil advised that early versions of TP4 and the
bushes
>>were ground to match each other, rather that to standard drawing
>>dimensions. I tried the other TP4 I have (the one installed on the
plane)
>>and it fit better, actually allowing me to get the starboard tailplane
all
>>the way on TP4 on the shop bench and seated into the TP13 bushes.
>>
>>Unfortunately, I cannot get the tailplane on when TP4 is mounted on the
>>fuselage, it is so tight. When I checked the port tailplane (and opened
up
>>the surface to reveal the TP6 bushing) it was clear on visual inspection
>>that the TP6 was out of alignment by at least a millimeter. (These
>>tailplanes were purchased from a charity which obtained them from an
>>estate, so I do not know the provenance of the construction).
>>
>>I will definitely have to remove/reseat the TP6 bushing on the port
>>tailplane, and probably the starboard as well.
>>
>>A thought occurred to me: why not have a tube machined that is one
piece,
>>the length from TP5 inboard to TP6 outboard and replacing both those
>>bushings, instead of 2 bushes with space between them? Having the 2
bushes
>>a distance apart seems to make it likely the 2 could be installed out of
>>alignment, whereas a single tube/bushing could not possibly be.
>>
>>Any thoughts on this suggestion? If I have to remove or reset both
>>bushings in both tailplanes, it seems efficient to just replace both
with a
>>single tube, and guarantee the integrity of the tailplane retention (at
>>least with respect to the possible unbonding of TP6).
>>
>>Also, any suggestions on the proper technique to remove the bonded-in
TP6
>>and TP5 bushes without damaging the surrounding material would be
>>appreciated.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>George Powell
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get Pimped! FREE emoticon packs from Windows Live -
>http://www.pimpmylive.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
|
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