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To Prim or not to Prim

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joe(at)rvbuildernet.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject: To Prim or not to Prim

From: Joseph Rhodes [mailto:joe(at)rvbuildernet.com] 

 Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:49 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: To Prim or not to Prim  

  

   

New builder 40744 Joseph Rhodes  

   

To Prim or not to Prim and with what    

I live in Florida and with the humidity, salt air and for resale value I would like to use a good primer  

What are you builders using?     

Any help would be appreciated  

   

Thanks Joe  

        [quote][b]

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rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: To Prim or not to Prim

oy vay!

 Look at the archives and you'll see 100's of  opinions on this.

 Use anything you want from a DTM wash primer from  SW to the Van's QB primer of SW P60 to 2 part stuff from  Spruce.

 Jesse can tell you what he's using.

 My decision in California was prime for the extra  measure (and scratches I seemed to create moving pieces around) and I used  the easiest thing I could find. Sherwin Williams DTM wash primer. It works, I  believe, well enough for me. 

 I believe ERAU has Cessnas in Daytona Beach with no  primer- I doubt they're worried about it..

 Pascal

  

  

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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:07 pm Post subject: To Prim or not to Prim

Oh my Gosh Joe!!! 

You do a lot of fishing? Because you just opened the biggest can 'o' worms in the metal plane building business. 

I used SW 988 SE primer after scuffing and alumabrighting.... Step back from your monitor, it's gonna get ugly!! 

Go to www.vansairforce.net join the forums, search for Primer and read for a few weeks if you really want some entertainment. 

Rick S. 

40185  

Finishing the finishing of the finishing

---

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Kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:12 pm Post subject: To Prim or not to Prim

Joe

  

 The decision to prime (or not) as well as the system used is an intensely personal one. Ask any 10 builders what they are using and you will likely get a dozen different answers.

  

 About a year ago when I started building I spoke to a few people and this is what I came up with:

  

  Many primers are very toxic. Just looking at the cotents of a typical rattle can primer almost made me grow a third arm 
I am building in an attached garage - I didn't want to polliute the environment in my house 
I am building in a cold environment so my garage is heated with a gas heater. This means I dn't want to use a systen that gives of combustabl fumes 
Because I am in a confined space (closed garage in winter) I want a primer that doesn't require *huge* ventilation  

What I ended up using was Sherwin Williams DTM (Direct to Metal) Wash Pimer (product code B71 Y 1). This is a water based product and cleans up easily. I apply it using a standard paint sprayer. 

It is not a two part epoxy system so there is no mixing involved. 

Cost in Canada is about $55 / gal.  used about two gallons on the tail section. 

Surface prep was simple - I scuffed the surfaces with a sctch brite pad, cleaned ith lacquer thinner and then sprayed on.  

PPE was simple - I used a half mask just to protect aganst lacquer thinner fumes and the paint mist.  

This product is designed for aluminium and seemed about the best compromise between not priming and needing a paint booth to prime. 

Keep in mind that some people don't prime at all (my '66 Cherokee was never primed for that matter).  

Anyway, this is what I do. Is it the *best* way to go? Who knows!  

Have fun building! 

Les Kearney 

#40643 

---

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ogdenk

Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Syracuse, NY

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:40 am Post subject: To Prim or not to Prim

Hi Joe,

  

 I too am a new builder, I went with the Akzo Nobel epoxy primer that can be purchase from Aircraft Spruce.  

  

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/akzoprimer.php

  

 I decided on this because it is specifically stated to be fluid and corrosive resistant, which not all primers are as I understand.  Many primers are intended to have a topcoat, and are primarily designed to provide good adhesion for the topcoat and not necessarily provide the ultimate in protection themselves.

  

 Once I sprayed this stuff on, I was very convinced that it will provide excellent protection as it is very hard and impermeable when cured.  I also emailed their technical support to as whether alodining is necessary.  They dithered a little and wouldn't come out and say that you don't need to alodine, just that the adhesion would be somewhat better if you did.  I alodined the vertical stabilizer, it was a big pain in the neck for me since I don't have water in my shop.  

  

 I decided I won't alodine any more (except maybe some small parts since I do have some of the chemicals).  I just make sure I scuff VERY well with scotchbrite and clean the surface thoroughly with MEK before priming.  Last week I bought the Taylor pneumatic DA (dual action) sander from Cleaveland tools (http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ADAS11) as well as the scotchbrite pad holder (http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=3MD945) and a bunch of the pads to cut for the sander (http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=3MP47).  Nothing like the right tool to make a job easy, but this doesn't work very well for small parts or 'inside' ribs etc.  I see that Taylor makes a 2" version of this sander (costs twice as much as the big one!) so I may go this route for small parts, or just continue to scuff them by hand.

  

 When everything is well prepped, even without alodining the Akzo primer grips like a mad monkey.  I don't think I will regret going this route, and I hope to be flying this plane for a very long time.

  

 Oh yeah, I bought a cheap HVLP sprayer (Chicago Electric?) from Harbor Freight.  I was very unhappy with it at first, but after adjusting and tweaking the air output it does a reasonable job.  Cleanup of the Akzo is easy, put some MEK in the cup and spray it out a few times.  Definitely want to do that outside!  I actually ignite the stuff with a torch as it comes out of the gun, it makes an impressive flame (who says building is the only fun we can have?).  Standard disclaimers apply if you do this yourself!

  

  

 Kent Ogden 

 #40710

  

 >>> "Joseph Rhodes" <joe(at)rvbuildernet.com> 10/01/07 6:57 PM >>>



   

  

     

 

From: Joseph Rhodes [mailto:joe(at)rvbuildernet.com] 

Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:49 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: To Prim or not to Prim

 

  

New builder 40744 Joseph Rhodes 

  

To Prim or not to Prim and with what   

I live in Florida and with the humidity, salt air and for resale value I would like to use a good primer 

What are you builders using?    

Any help would be appreciated 

  

Thanks Joe

[quote][b]

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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:04 am Post subject: To Prim or not to Prim

Kent, 

STOP DOING THAT!!! 

Without adequate flame arrestors on the lines supplying the fluids and air your an explosion waiting to happen. The vapors trapped in the bowl of the gun will make a very nice IED with alumium sharpnel for all. 

Rick Sked 

Safety Guy by day, RV-10 builder by night.

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fehdxl(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:36 pm Post subject: To Prim or not to Prim

Kent,  Here's a link to a post on VAF.net ... I too use AKZO and found a way to save a few $$.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=19480&highlight=azko 



Here's the copy/paste of the post.



Aircraft Spruce sells it for $134 <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/akzoprimer.php> plus some normal & hazardous shipping. 

 

 Graco Supply <http://www.gracosupply.com/> (866) 943-4200 sells it for $87. Graco doesn't charge any handling fee and they thought it would be around $35 to ship because of the extra $20 hazardous shipping fee. Even with Spruce's free shipping (but not free hazardous shipping), you would be about 30% less.

 

 No connection with Graco other than happy they would sell to me since they usually deal with the bigger companies around Wichita.

 

 -Jim

 40603



 	  Quote: 	
		   ...I went with the Akzo Nobel epoxy primer that can be purchase from Aircraft Spruce.  

  

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/akzoprimer.php

  

 

  

 Kent Ogden 

 #40710

  



	




Hmm, to archive or not??  I guess so, since it might help someone save some $$ down the road

  [quote][b]

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johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:03 am Post subject: Re: To Prim or not to Prim

[quote="joe(at)rvbuildernet.com"]From: Joseph Rhodes [mailto:joe(at)rvbuildernet.com] 

 Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:49 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: To Prim or not to Prim  

New builder 40744 Joseph Rhodes  

To Prim or not to Prim and with what    

I live in Florida and with the humidity, salt air and for resale value I would like to use a good primer  

What are you builders using?     

Any help would be appreciated  

Thanks Joe  

         	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	

Joe,

There have been plenty of primer wars going on for years. I agree with the others that a search will give you all the answers you need.

Having said that (g), The 21st Century has produced lots of stuff that might work, as well. I have decided to use ACF-50. My CAP Unit on Kauai uses it on every annual. One plane is primered, the other isn't. They both seem just fine. I don't prime anything unless Van stresses it, and then I only use a rattle can of Zinc Oxide. The Chromate stuff is a known carcinogen and also destroys the kidneys.

ACF-50 is a fairly new product that will remind you of WD-40. You spray it on. I plan on fogging the plane with it right after everything is painted, and then every year thereafter. Here is a website with a description of it:

http://www.corrosion-control.com/acf50.html

John

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